European manual query

[Fred]

Originally posted by Pascal DI FOLCO:

Heeeellllllooooo !

No non no, I won't even say a thing about this (I promised The Bald One, I fear the baseball bat now... :eek: )

But I stay tuned for announcements from BFC, and I heartily support the idea of allowing Net sales from BFC from Europe.

I suppose this will amount to a loss for CDV of maybe 0.02% of sales profit, so increase the price by 0.02$ for us and give them back .

But PLLLEEEEEAAAASEEE deliver us from evi... huh, I mean CDV

That will not happen.

Take a look at the situation now:

- Europeans are not allowed to order directly as with CMBO

- Europeans pay the same price but do not get a printed manual (only a 2nd class pdf file)

- Europeans get a modified exe file (censorship is hardcoded in it)

- Europeans are called whiners for complaining about this two-class handling of paying customers

- Europeans with some latest DVD drives will have trouble with CDC legendary copy-protection scheme

And BF still comes with the argument, that more people will now play CM b/c of CDV...suddenly they do hunt for the twitch crowd...funny!

Neither SHRAPNEL Games nor MATRIX did this, and both companys are successful too...hmmm

The second biggest market for entertainment software (europe) should be handled with care, not with hybris.

Fred

[Barrold]

I apologize if this is a wrong assumption for Macs for perhaps lower end PCs, but shouldn't you be able to Alt-Tab or otherwise minimize the game for a bit to read the PDF as a separate task?

While I am not a big fan of reading long PDFs on the screen, printing it out on paper somehow would be a better compromise.

I hope this doesn't remain an issue once everyone gets their copy and sees things for themselves.

BDH

[Danzig]

Originally posted by barrold713:

I apologize if this is a wrong assumption for Macs for perhaps lower end PCs, but shouldn't you be able to Alt-Tab or otherwise minimize the game for a bit to read the PDF as a separate task?

BDH

I was just thinking the same thing. I often alt-tab out to desktop while playing a game to get on the internet to look something up about the game. Easily as done with a PDF file already opened.

Just seems like there's a lot of complaining over something so simple...but this forum has never been short on complainers, lol!

[Firefly]

Originally posted by Danzig:

I was just thinking the same thing. I often alt-tab out to desktop while playing a game to get on the internet to look something up about the game. Easily as done with a PDF file already opened.

Just seems like there's a lot of complaining over something so simple...but this forum has never been short on complainers, lol!

Fine, send me your printed manual when you get it and I'll send you my .pdf file. Then we'll both be happy.

[Agua]

Originally posted by Danzig:

I'm afraid you've whacked a hornet's nest with a stick here.

[Panzer Leader]

I was just thinking the same thing. I often alt-tab out to desktop while playing a game to get on the internet to look something up about the game. Easily as done with a PDF file already opened.

Just seems like there's a lot of complaining over something so simple...but this forum has never been short on complainers, lol!

That is completely irrelevant. The bottom line is that all of us Combat Mision Fans have come to expect only the best from BFC. And in Europe it seems that these numerous "little things" are beginning to have serious affect.

No one is doubting the greatness of BFC or of their product, but come on, I would seriously feel jipped if I got a sub-par manual. After all, what will I do on the pot? Alt-tab, sheesh.

What I think is even more what is happening is that all of this manual stuff came as a complete SURPRISE to these long-term core customers.

Only time will tell how this works out, but today for me is BFC's finest hour. Congratulations Steve and Charles and Matt and Dan and Martin!

[Fred]

Originally posted by Panzer Leader:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> I was just thinking the same thing. I often alt-tab out to desktop while playing a game to get on the internet to look something up about the game. Easily as done with a PDF file already opened.

Just seems like there's a lot of complaining over something so simple...but this forum has never been short on complainers, lol!

That is completely irrelevant. The bottom line is that all of us Combat Mision Fans have come to expect only the best from BFC. And in Europe it seems that these numerous "little things" are beginning to have serious affect.

No one is doubting the greatness of BFC or of their product, but come on, I would seriously feel jipped if I got a sub-par manual. After all, what will I do on the pot? Alt-tab, sheesh.

What I think is even more what is happening is that all of this manual stuff came as a complete SURPRISE to these long-term core customers.

Only time will tell how this works out, but today for me is BFC's finest hour. Congratulations Steve and Charles and Matt and Dan and Martin!</font>

[Danzig]

Originally posted by Firefly:

Fine, send me your printed manual when you get it and I'll send you my .pdf file. Then we'll both be happy.[/QB]

LOL I wondered who the first person would be to say this, LOL!

While I wouldn't mind the half-PDF manual if it was the only route to go, no way I'm giving up my shiny new manual when I get it. Like someone said earlier, it's probably gonna be a collectors item, LOL!

I'm afraid you've whacked a hornet's nest with a stick here.

LOL, I know, I know. Just having some fun at the manual-less impaired fellows across the Atlantic.

Truly BTS will find a nice common ground for their customers and this issue will go away no problemo.

I'll be quiet now, I promise!

[Apache]

The only reason it came as a complete surprise is because IIRC at no stage until the post appeared from the guy saying 'I got the game complete with a 90 page manual' was anyone aware of it!! That's why.

[Barrold]

I understand to a certain extent, the point of US customers not having perfect sympathy since we will be getting the full manual. If it was me, I might not be thrilled but I don't think I would allow it to ruin my enthusiasm for the new game.

Before jumping on BFC, I would certainly advise waiting until the projected solution to this matter is provided. It might not be to your 100% liking, but at least they are trying to be cooperative.

Additionally, even at this point, at the risk of going over well-trod ground about CDV, the question that must be asked, "Is BFC doing the best they can given the circumstances?" A cursory analysis certainly gives them the benefit of the doubt. Ideally, I am sure they would like to make everyone happy, but with this group I don't think it is possible.

Steve has down a good job at making the business case for their deal with CDV. People may disagree, but the principles they based their company's decision upon are solid.

Also much repeated was their assertion that this deal is only for the present game, and if it does not turn out to be advantageous, then they have the option to look at alternatives.

Given this contractual binding, I do not see where they have much wriggle room in making things different, but there is something that should be recognized. The BFC guys have been here listening and are at least trying to find a reasonably attainable workaround which must certainly be better than to be told 'tough darts farmer'.

So while the situation may not be the ideal, I don't think there is a problem that can not be resolved sufficiently. If I were in your predicament and the issue was of such import that my purchase decision was in jeapardy, I would either work with someone to get a U.S. copy, wait for the BFC solution or user patch in the Nazi nomenclature controversy, or perhaps even take a trip to a locale in Europe that is not subject to the restrictions and make your purchase there.

Otherwise, I am sure the lamentations have been noted so make the best of the current situation and be happy that you have such little items to be exercised over in the grand scheme of existence.

BDH

[Fred]

Originally posted by Danzig:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Firefly:

Fine, send me your printed manual when you get it and I'll send you my .pdf file. Then we'll both be happy.

LOL I wondered who the first person would be to say this, LOL!

While I wouldn't mind the half-PDF manual if it was the only route to go, no way I'm giving up my shiny new manual when I get it. Like someone said earlier, it's probably gonna be a collectors item, LOL!

I'm afraid you've whacked a hornet's nest with a stick here.

LOL, I know, I know. Just having some fun at the manual-less impaired fellows across the Atlantic.

Truly BTS will find a nice common ground for their customers and this issue will go away no problemo.

I'll be quiet now, I promise! [/QB]</font>

[Apache]

barold (or whatever) Just WHO are you giving the benefit of your criticism here? The question has been raised as to why it came as a big surprise. If the argument don't interest you, duck out!

[ September 20, 2002, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: Apache ]

[demoss]

What would they say if they have to cope with Waffel-Grenadiere?

WaffleGrenadiere? You mean there's a scenario with Belgian Fascists? That'd probably be Cherkassy Pocket... mmmmm...

Funny thing is, I have OVER THE REICH, US, ACHTUNG SPITFIRE, US, FLIGHT COMMANDER 2 US, CMBO, US...but suddenly our money stinks.

Yup. We Americans had enough trouble figuring out Francs and Deutschemarks. You want a unified currency, you can use the damn DOLLAR!

[ September 20, 2002, 04:32 PM: Message edited by: demoss ]

[Captain Wacky]

Originally posted by Fred:

Well,

it seems as if BF does not think that europeans are of any importance; they sold them to CDV.

No, BFC decided to distribute CMBB and CMBO in Europe through CDV because it allows them to reach a MUCH larger audience through retail than they would normally have just doing business over the internet. Despite a few annoyance for European players who order from CDV, many more people will now be able to enjoy CMBB, and BFC makes more money that goes straight towards the engine rewrite.

[russellmz]

Originally posted by Firefly:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Danzig:

I was just thinking the same thing. I often alt-tab out to desktop while playing a game to get on the internet to look something up about the game. Easily as done with a PDF file already opened.

Just seems like there's a lot of complaining over something so simple...but this forum has never been short on complainers, lol!

Fine, send me your printed manual when you get it and I'll send you my .pdf file. Then we'll both be happy.</font>

[Fred]

Originally posted by demoss:

[qb]

WaffleGrenadiere? You mean there's a scenario with Belgian Fascists? That'd probably be Cherkassy Pocket... mmmmm...

Yup. We Americans had enough trouble figuring out Francs and Deutschemarks. You want a unified currency, you can use the damn DOLLAR!

My not-so-educated friend

We have a unified currency, the EURO.

And we do have cents now too!

Fred

[ September 20, 2002, 04:45 PM: Message edited by: Fred ]

[Feldgendarm]

First: I love BFC, and their CM-Series is, in my humble opinion, by far the best wargame in computer history. And I have made sure I'll get it ... the "original", of course.

Second: If the CDV version of CMBB is soooo wonderful as "officially" claimed ... why is there still an American version? Why does BFC not make the game according to CDV-standards right from the beginning? What is good enough for us Europeans should also be good enough for the Americans.

So I demand this: Americans should also get a minimized manual, political correct textures and unit names and a copy-protected CD. And everybody will be happy, because the CDV-style version is fantastic and all are treated equal.

Greetings!

[Barrold]

If you mean criticism as in a flame or some sort, I assure you that is not the case.

To my mind, I was simply pointing out things I would think were rather obvious and attempting to illuminate possible solutions to the gripes that have been issued.

Since it was mentioned that U.S. purchasers would feel differently if subject to the same purchase conditions, it certainly became an argument of interest.

This is sort of an apples/oranges discussion since expecting a outcome other than what is in the works right now would require a different input. The die for the input is already set. The contract with CDV is in place for the time being and BFC is reasonably happy so it seems with the results.

I don't think that Fred's argument that hubris or an offensive smell of European money hold water and I think he is an outlier of argumentative unreasonableness. If it were so, Matt would not have already been in here speaking of a possible workaround to the problem.

Pointing out where someone may be over-reacting and providing points to ponder along with possible solutions is not a bad thing in this case.

I hope this works out in a good way to all those concerned and you are able to enjoy the game.

BDH

[Fred]

Originally posted by Captain Wacky:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Fred:

Well,

it seems as if BF does not think that europeans are of any importance; they sold them to CDV.

No, BFC decided to distribute CMBB and CMBO in Europe through CDV because it allows them to reach a MUCH larger audience through retail than they would normally have just doing business over the internet. Despite a few annoyance for European players who order from CDV, many more people will now be able to enjoy CMBB, and BFC makes more money that goes straight towards the engine rewrite.</font>

[Terence]

Does the .pdf viewer not come with a print function in Europe? Although this will come across as a stupid question, it really isn't. Im not trolling, I swear.

The pdf documents I use are all printable. There's a print button right on the interface.

Assuming that you have the same pdf viewer that I do, whats the problem with printing the thing out?

In all honesty, I don't see the problem, as long as you get the info... Compared to the larger universe of games where even if you GET the full manual, its total crap, this seems like a minor hiccup, since by all accounts the CMBB manual is quite good.

A printed .pdf plus the printed manual seems like a small inconvenience to be causing this much stir.

But as I said, perhaps there is something I do not understand...

[ September 20, 2002, 04:54 PM: Message edited by: Terence ]

[Fred]

Originally posted by barrold713:

If you mean criticism as in a flame or some sort, I assure you that is not the case.

To my mind, I was simply pointing out things I would think were rather obvious and attempting to illuminate possible solutions to the gripes that have been issued.

Since it was mentioned that U.S. purchasers would feel differently if subject to the same purchase conditions, it certainly became an argument of interest.

This is sort of an apples/oranges discussion since expecting a outcome other than what is in the works right now would require a different input. The die for the input is already set. The contract with CDV is in place for the time being and BFC is reasonably happy so it seems with the results.

I don't think that Fred's argument that hubris or an offensive smell of European money hold water and I think he is an outlier of argumentative unreasonableness. If it were so, Matt would not have already been in here speaking of a possible workaround to the problem.

Pointing out where someone may be over-reacting and providing points to ponder along with possible solutions is not a bad thing in this case.

I hope this works out in a good way to all those concerned and you are able to enjoy the game.

BDH

Barrold,

even if you call me names, I still hold to my opinion, that, given the same scenario, some US customers would be the first to complain.

So call me a whiner or whatever, as long as I know that I am right, it does not hurt

Fred

[Fred]

Originally posted by Feldgendarm:

First: I love BFC, and their CM-Series is, in my humble opinion, by far the best wargame in computer history. And I have made sure I'll get it ... the "original", of course.

Second: If the CDV version of CMBB is soooo wonderful as "officially" claimed ... why is there still an American version? Why does BFC not make the game according to CDV-standards right from the beginning? What is good enough for us Europeans should also be good enough for the Americans.

So I demand this: Americans should also get a minimized manual, political correct textures and unit names and a copy-protected CD. And everybody will be happy, because the CDV-style version is fantastic and all are treated equal.

Greetings!

Right on target, even if I feel, that some would not like it...but as long as only europeans are concerned, it is ok...

Some of my US friends here are praying water, while they drink wine!

Fred

[Panzer Leader]

That is not on target. The US version is different than the Euro version not because BFC "Likes America better" but because they don't have QUITE the same concerns as CDV (copy protection, box size, Nazi laws).

That said, I agree that Americans (myself included) would be just as outraged if our "perfect" product were thus tampered with.

[Terence]

Originally posted by Feldgendarm:

So I demand this: Americans should also get a minimized manual, political correct textures and unit names and a copy-protected CD. And everybody will be happy, because the CDV-style version is fantastic and all are treated equal.

Greetings!

Fine with me. I really couldn't care less. Well, the copy protected CD thing might bug me cause I like to run Norton on auto-protect...

[Andreas]

Originally posted by Fred:

The so-called 'much larger audience' is the twitch-crowd, formerly shunned by BF, but now, as BF turns away from wargamers to more casual gamers, are more important than those people that supported them right from the start.

Fred

I am sorry, but this is just ridiculous. It is so ridiculous that I will not even bother outlining a shred of evidence against this claim. You should listen to yourself.

Battlefront turns away from the wargamers. What next? Stoiber joins the Green Party?