Am I playing against a whiner named Edited?

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Panzer Leader:

It seems like the crimes that warrent Public Ostracization have gone down a bit. Perhaps we can force this "phan" to wear a scarlet letter as well?

He may be immature, but you, sir, have been rude.

Hmmm? Coming from a Cesspooler that strikes me as odd, but nonetheless...posts high in rudiousity usually draw the ire they deserve. I received useful feedback, and it looked like a couple of compliments along the way. (Or close as Melvin gets to one...the big lug!) **shrugs**

[Das Reich]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

Buddy's name is PhanCucChin@aol.com -

So it's come to that now, eh?

I was wondering when we would see the first person whose name can double as an email address.

[Simon Fox]

Oh yes why stop at just naming him in the thread let's pop it in the title as well. When's the public flogging? Can we lynch the whingers who whine about whiners too? Or even the whinging whiners whining about whining whiners?

Really, Dorosh, I disagree with Panzer Leader; you are not "rude" you are a very silly boy indeed.

This one is really crying out for the padlock, are BTS all asleep or what? Come on guys let's put an end to this spectacle.

[Brian]

I'm more used to seeing this sort of public "outing" behavior on USENet. I'm disappointed in you, Michael. I don't doubt you felt you were goaded into this action but I still feel you've gone too far.

What next, issuing of a yellow star?

BTS, please lock this thread ASAP!

[aka_tom_w]

well I'm happy he was "outed"

now I will know who not to play against!

thanks for the heads up

-tom w

[Captain Wacky]

Nuts to you all and this sanctimonious crap. You guys aren't Dorosh's parents and this isn't Leave it to Beaver. Gee golly gosh darn shucks sir, I'm awful sorry sumfin fierce for being BUM-BUM-BUM--RUDE!!!!! *Gasp* Whatever will we do?

The guy was a jerk and had it (as if this were actually important) coming. The only thing that should be changed is to move it into the opponent finder thread so anyone looking for a game can choose not to play him. Now if Mr. Chin wants to come here and answer the charges against him, fine. If not, oh well. So a few hundred anonymous people will think the guy is a shirker. Big deal. Life goes on. He'll still have his job tomorrow morning.

[Sir Uber General]

I applaud you Mr D for naming the whiner. The only way to deal with griefers is to tell them to shove off and make sure everyone knows to look out for em.

Good work.

[Herr Kruger]

Originally posted by Brian:

What next, issuing of a yellow star?

BTS, please lock this thread ASAP!

LOL! That's quite a stretch, Bri! ROFL!

[Simon Fox]

Originally posted by Captain Wacky:

Nuts to you all and this sanctimonious crap. You guys aren't Dorosh's parents and this isn't Leave it to Beaver. Gee golly gosh darn shucks sir, I'm awful sorry sumfin fierce for being BUM-BUM-BUM--RUDE!!!!! *Gasp* Whatever will we do?

The guy was a jerk and had it (as if this were actually important) coming. The only thing that should be changed is to move it into the opponent finder thread so anyone looking for a game can choose not to play him. Now if Mr. Chin wants to come here and answer the charges against him, fine. If not, oh well. So a few hundred anonymous people will think the guy is a shirker. Big deal. Life goes on. He'll still have his job tomorrow morning.

So you have personally dealt with this individual and can attest to their "jerk" title have you?. Or are you generally of the habit of taking second-hand opinions and getting hot under the collar about them? By all means let's see Dorosh lay some formal charges before the official CMBO kangaroo court. So far it seems either through ignorance or malevolence this individual might have tried to pull a swifty on Dorosh. Since Dorosh turned the tables on him and by his account acheiving ascendancy in the game that should have been enough. Rather than personally confront this individual Dorosh chose to gather up a little band of assistants even if it was not his intent to do so. The fact is that there are far more idjits in the world than Machiavelli's, when confronted with the suspicious the correct answer is generally ineptitude.

[Michael Dorosh]

Simon, have you ever entered a thread anywhere before page 3? Inquiring minds want to know.

[Sir Uber General]

If you dont think griefers should be outed, go and play a game where they are everywhere and see how much fun that is.

Counterstike anyone?

[Simon Fox]

Depends what happens on page 2.

How does it feel to be on the sharp end of a few sermons for a change.

[Captain Wacky]

Originally posted by Simon Fox:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Captain Wacky:

Nuts to you all and this sanctimonious crap. You guys aren't Dorosh's parents and this isn't Leave it to Beaver. Gee golly gosh darn shucks sir, I'm awful sorry sumfin fierce for being BUM-BUM-BUM--RUDE!!!!! *Gasp* Whatever will we do?

The guy was a jerk and had it (as if this were actually important) coming. The only thing that should be changed is to move it into the opponent finder thread so anyone looking for a game can choose not to play him. Now if Mr. Chin wants to come here and answer the charges against him, fine. If not, oh well. So a few hundred anonymous people will think the guy is a shirker. Big deal. Life goes on. He'll still have his job tomorrow morning.

So you have personally dealt with this individual and can attest to their "jerk" title have you?. Or are you generally of the habit of taking second-hand opinions and getting hot under the collar about them? By all means let's see Dorosh lay some formal charges before the official CMBO kangaroo court. So far it seems either through ignorance or malevolence this individual might have tried to pull a swifty on Dorosh. Since Dorosh turned the tables on him and by his account acheiving ascendancy in the game that should have been enough. Rather than personally confront this individual Dorosh chose to gather up a little band of assistants even if it was not his intent to do so. The fact is that there are far more idjits in the world than Machiavelli's, when confronted with the suspicious the correct answer is generally ineptitude.</font>

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Simon Fox:

Depends what happens on page 2.

How does it feel to be on the sharp end of a few sermons for a change.

Not nice. Kidding aside, it was a tough decision, and I had hoped it was recognized that some degree of thought went into it. I had thought SuperTed set the precedent, as he is "on staff" at CMHQ, and I didn't take the matter lightly. But after asking quite nicely said person several times to at least honour his offer to send his password (something I would never dream of asking anyone for), and being called childish in return and told to "act like a man", I reacted. If BTS doesn't want this type of discussion to go on here, I'll honour that request, but seeing one of their employees do the same, and the comments of several people in this thread, leads me to believe otherwise.

The negative comments towards me have been noted, and I will obviously know better than to do this again. I'll also think twice about playing someone who emails me from out of the blue looking for a game.

Oh, and if our friend wants to get in touch with me, this thread would be the only way - I had his email address blocked at the server level, meaning I wouldn't know if he tried to email me.

[Panzer Leader]

Originally posted by Sir Uber General:

If you dont think griefers should be outed, go and play a game where they are everywhere and see how much fun that is.

Counterstike anyone?

Thankfully we are not on e "Counterstrike" board or a "Quake" board or whatever pissant immature game is "Kewl" these days. This is and has always been a board known for mature, responsible behavior. Knowledgeable of facts, and fair with play. It has... humanity it does.

To be "outed" or "berated" publicly or whatever is crass. It was ok (sort of) before names and EMAIL adresses were bandied about, but it seems to me that people in general should be given the respect they are due. This stupid thread is like an episode of "Cops" or "America's Most Wanted" where a bunch of people get in a frenzy about some (usually) small PERCEIVED slight or injustice, never for a moment considering the injustice they are doing to the person they are mobbing.

And yes, we have been -- and should be -- above such things here. After all, it is the lack of this that makes the board, the game, and the company so great in the first place.

I was a little disappointed the last time some one was "outed" but said nothing. The case was well made, but really, do we really need such garbage posted here. Are we such game-sluts that we'll play a game with anybody, but are so short of time that if something goes wrong it is all "wasted"? I may not be clear here, but what I am trying to say is that whether this kid was evil, ignorant, or whatever, it is no excuse to sully this meassage board with a bunch of garbage. Take it off-line or wherever the trolls and inconsiderate people hang out.

And for you clowns backing him up with "Thank god now I can add HIM to my list!" Get real. Play people you know, and if you have a bad experience, shrug it off and move on. I don't think "bad players" are a big enough factor here to warrent keeping a "black list"

That is what I am trying to say.

Incidentally, to add a little fuel, the person being slandered here sent me an email (with difficulty - English being his second language) and told me that he tried to settle things with MD, but MD threatened and cajoled him and then posted this message before he had time to respond.

I don't know what happened, and you know what? I don't want to know, and that's why this thread is trash that doesn't belong here.

Thank you and good-night.

[Simon Fox]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Simon Fox:

Depends what happens on page 2.

How does it feel to be on the sharp end of a few sermons for a change.

Not nice. Kidding aside, it was a tough decision, and I had hoped it was recognized that some degree of thought went into it. I had thought SuperTed set the precedent, as he is "on staff" at CMHQ, and I didn't take the matter lightly. But after asking quite nicely said person several times to at least honour his offer to send his password (something I would never dream of asking anyone for), and being called childish in return and told to "act like a man", I reacted. If BTS doesn't want this type of discussion to go on here, I'll honour that request, but seeing one of their employees do the same, and the comments of several people in this thread, leads me to believe otherwise.

The negative comments towards me have been noted, and I will obviously know better than to do this again. I'll also think twice about playing someone who emails me from out of the blue looking for a game.

Oh, and if our friend wants to get in touch with me, this thread would be the only way - I had his email address blocked at the server level, meaning I wouldn't know if he tried to email me.</font>

[rleete]

I have to agree with Panzer Leader on this one. Post any message in the opponent finder forum, and you will be bombarded with unsolicited emails, from people you've never even seen posting. Once your name is seen regularly on the forum, they think it's "safe" to try and get a game. Not all of these people are cluless; I've gotten some very good, long term opponents this way.

But I do object to any kind of public flogging. After all, many are newbies, trying a game with a human opponent for the first time. Many are trying to avoid being labeled as "gamey" at all costs. And, it isn't very fun to be trashed completely, when they might have thought they had things figured out. Almost anyone can give the AI a good thrashing, but get thrashed themselves against a human.

Should have let it drop after the first page, IMHO.

[Slangton]

"Bad boys! Whatya gon' Whatya gonna do?

When they come for you..."

lol.

[Sir Uber General]

If the person doing the finger pointing was someone who does not seem to have the respect of the board then I would not listen to them. Would you listen to me for example? I doubt it. That is why I listen to the board vets when it comes to these sort of things, and heed their advice when it comes to dodgey players. I applaud them when they tell us not to bother playing with someone that does not play nice as my time is as valuable as the next guy's.

Note that in my first post I said I recently had a bad experience with TH ladder player in the top 5, yet I did not name them. I know when discretion should be used. Everyone should also realise that as any game gets more popular, the grief player numbers go way up. That is the only thing sperating CMBO from CS. If CM was as wildly popular as CS, you would see the same griefer idiots pollute this community too. I can tell you this is a fact as I have owned and run quake and CS servers in the past. I have seen good clean fun games that very few people played destroyed by idiots as it became popular. I'd rather not see the same happen here. If it did you would see cheats that crack PBEM files so you can see your opponents forces in no time. I know I dont want that.

No d00dz.

(fixing typos)

[ April 09, 2002, 02:05 AM: Message edited by: Sir Uber General ]

[CMplayer]

I don't think it's as bad as Simon says. This board is pretty forgiving, as boards go, so if this guy just says something like 'oh I see what you mean, yeah that wasn't so cool of me' no one will harbor a grudge.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by CMplayer:

I don't think it's as bad as Simon says. This board is pretty forgiving, as boards go, so if this guy just says something like 'oh I see what you mean, yeah that wasn't so cool of me' no one will harbor a grudge.

You made a good point on Page 1, CMPlayer - my off the cuff remark about "green and conscript" led to some conclusions to be drawn; my bad.

The main point of this whole stupid mess is that on turn 21 of a 30 turn game in which no restrictions were discussed, the guy bailed. He offered a password, I sent him mine against my better judgement since I (until now) use it for a lot of other applications, and he still simply bailed. I think the latter part bothered me the most - I would never dream in a million years of asking for someone's password - to some its not a big deal, to me it is. No one's ever asked me for mine. I offered it up in good faith, and the guy still bailed. That's something that's not supposed to be done. All the other stuff - force picks, he said/he said is all besides the point, to me.

[CMplayer]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

and the guy still bailed.

There's a word for that on the go servers. He's an 'escaper'. There they try to make it look like they lost their connection, since you play in real time. Of course it makes more sense, in the twisted little world of escapers, to escape from games that are being rated and which they are close to losing. If you guys were just having an unrated game then it's even more silly somehow.

[109 Gustav]

Hi guys, it's quiet hours now, so I'd appreciate it if you could keep it down a little...

Oh, wait. I can only do that in the dorm. Better call the Residence Director - I mean Madmatt.

[Holien]

To those who feel this thread should be closed.

I think you have some valid points and they are worth considering.

However, some of the language is inflammatory and drawing upon gut feelings.

"What next, issuing of a yellow star?"

"any kind of public flogging"

"Perhaps we can force this "phan" to wear a scarlet letter as well?"

"When's the public flogging? Can we lynch the whingers who whine about whiners too? "

This is unfair and while you might perceive that this is what has happened here I do not believe that to be the case.

It has been a discussion held in the open and for all to see and comment on. This is democracy at work.

Yes it is unfair that the language is English and if your cultural background and primary language is not English. We can do nothing about that, as this is the medium that we communicate in.

While some might wish these discussions were held behind closed doors I think we would have lost something if they had been.

The issues raised on these boards cover the whole spectrum of issues around CM and how it is played. Mr D has just raised an issue and people have commented on it.

From these responses you get an idea (maybe wrong) of what is perceived to be the common rules of the group, or of certain people amongst the group.

The thread has been a discussion and not a "Court" or any of the emotive terms that have been bandied around.

I am glad the discussion has happened as it has given me information about what is acceptable and not IMO and made me think through the issues.

Just my view and I am trying to take the emotional language out of it.

As for naming people then I think if someone is saying something about me I would rather that be in the open than behind closed doors and behind my back. At least I will know where I stand.

H

[MrSpkr]

Nice job, H. I was a bit amazed that the individual's name was mentioned in the thread title (probably a bit much), but I understand what Michael is trying to do. I also think many of the negative folks have gone a bit over the top.

That being said, though, this thread needs to be wrapped up. The initial message of 'don't play this guy' has been made. What is going on now is less of "watch out for this guy in PBEM games" and more "Awwwmmm - I'm gonna tell Mom and you're REALLY gonna get it now!"