What new features should the first CMx2 demo scenarios showcase?

[aka_tom_w]

Well it is NOT official but I for one would like to see asymetrical FOW settings.

A battle that starts at dawn and last 60 minutes until it gets light out while you play.

An attack scenario designed to be played against an ideally scripted AI opponent that would include a surprise counter attack or some such well programed and scripted action on the part of the AI that will blow me away with its clever planning (on the part of the scenario designer) and well timed and shrewdly executed moves and actions based on cues and hints in from the scenario designer for the AI to follow!

Some fun units to play with

The hardest possible EFOW setting to play againt the AI.

Explosions and demolitions that change the terrain.

I am sure the rest of you can think of many more potential CMx2 features you are looking forward to see in the demo.

When I think about demo scenarios I think about how GREAT Chance Encounter was in CMBO and the other one with the Hellcats and the Tiger. Now those should have been awarded some special prize for GREAT scenario design for FREE demo scenarios! Those two scenarios alone must have accounted for more than their fair share of CMBO sales, more than any other amount advertising other than word of mouth and posts about how great CMBO is in the forums here, I would say.

(yeah yeah, yeah... I know the demo is still 6-8-9 months away but I was JUST dreaming a little early ok? )

-tom w

[M1A1TC]

I would like to see 2 missions. One set in open area, and another in urban enviroment. I want to see combat engineers blow holes in building's walls, fluid infantry movements, light posts, junk littering the streets, civilians cought in crossfire.

Id like to see new camera movement system- using mouse wheel to zoom in- out.

I want to see a revamped tile/mission editor. Being able to make my own tiles. Drop-in style editor, more intuitive to use, more flexible

Hopefully it is 6 months away, not 9

I am being deployed overseas, so hopefully it will be ready when I come back in 1 year

[ July 14, 2005, 11:05 AM: Message edited by: M1A1TankCommander ]

[rune]

There are no tiles, and there will NOT be an editor in a demo.

Rune

[Hensworth]

Originally posted by rune:

There are no tiles

Rune

Yay !!!

Yay !!!

[Sergei]

Good. I always saw hexes as a better solution.

[hellfish]

Rune knows something. Quick! Get the duct tape, some really long, thin, strong paper and lemon juice!

When I think about demo scenarios I think about how GREAT Chance Encounter was in CMBO and the other one with the Hellcats and the Tiger. Now those should have been awarded some special prize for GREAT scenario design for FREE demo scenarios! Those two scenarios alone must have accounted for more than their fair share of CMBO sales, more than any other amount advertising other than word of mouth and posts about how great CMBO is in the forums here, I would say.

That was an awesome scenario. I must have played it a hundred times, easy.

[rune]

To quote Steve on what has been said publically:

I'm really not here to introduce new information, but I will remind people of stuff we've already said will be in CMx2 [smile] Specifically, 1:1 man representation and terrain graphics which are based on much smaller "tile" sizes.

Significantly smaller tile size was simply not possible back when CM was originally coded. Tile size is the root cause for pretty much all the "shortcomings" noted about the graphical representations over the past 5 years. With the new system (which basically doesn't use tiles at all) all sorts of things have changed. However, because CMx2 games won't contain hand crafted scenarios (like other games, especially FPS types) there will still be a bit of generic feel to individual objects. The only way to avoid that is to eliminate Quick Battles and the Editor, which I am sure you guys don't want [smile]

other then that, not at liberty to say.

Rune

[Other Means]

Originally posted by rune:

{snip}

other then that, not at liberty to say.

Rune

Is it good?

[General Bolt]

Originally posted by aka_tom_w:

[snip...snip]Explosions and demolitions that change the terrain.

[snip...snip]

-tom w

Trees that can be knocked down to provide cover/concelement and really hurt guys standing to close to the falling limbs.

Early/late suns rays hindering vision of units looking into the sun.

Shadows hindering spotting.

[Jaska.]

Originally posted by rune:

To quote Steve on what has been said publically:

I'm really not here to introduce new information, but I will remind people of stuff we've already said will be in CMx2 [smile] Specifically, 1:1 man representation and terrain graphics which are based on much smaller "tile" sizes.

Significantly smaller tile size was simply not possible back when CM was originally coded. Tile size is the root cause for pretty much all the "shortcomings" noted about the graphical representations over the past 5 years. With the new system (which basically doesn't use tiles at all) all sorts of things have changed. However, because CMx2 games won't contain hand crafted scenarios (like other games, especially FPS types) there will still be a bit of generic feel to individual objects. The only way to avoid that is to eliminate Quick Battles and the Editor, which I am sure you guys don't want [smile]

other then that, not at liberty to say.

Rune

Cheers for the info ! :cool:

You really are at an enviable position, knowing things we don't... But then again, maybe for you the wait is even a more anxious one, as you probably have an idea on what CMx2 will be like !

[MikeyD]

I think CMx2 demo scenarios should showcase their method off inserting the player directly into the battle 'Matrix'-style (Matrix one, not those crappy sequals). That, plus a discount coupon for the mandatory implant into the base of the skull.

[Conscript Bagger]

1. The kitchen sink.

2. CMx1 sales figures.

3. Lightning-quick turn resolution on my circa-1998 rig.

Actually, I'd settle for just two of the above.

[flamingknives]

"Chance Encounter" and "Valley of Trouble", or something similar. Show how different it is on familiar scenarios.

[krill]

When I think about demo scenarios I think about how GREAT Chance Encounter was in CMBO and the other one with the Hellcats and the Tiger. Now those should have been awarded some special prize for GREAT scenario design for FREE demo scenarios! Those two scenarios alone must have accounted for more than their fair share of CMBO sales, more than any other amount advertising other than word of mouth and posts about how great CMBO is in the forums here, I would say. [smile]

Amen to that. Played the original demo to death and beyond, a very serious hook.

Considering I correctly understand the design philosophy, all a CMx2 demo needs to showcase is an interesting scenario or two. The rest is part of the engine so all 'gameplay features' will be there.

Question is what setting for scenario's will appeal to the american market the most ... France 44, Desert storm ?

[MikeyD]

Hah!

Flamingknives is on to something there. "Chance Encounter" reworked for each CM release has become a benchmark to test the differences between engine upgrades. A CMx2 Chance Encounter is just what the Dr. ordered!

Matt, Moon, write that suggestion down on a post-it!

[aka_tom_w]

ok ok....

How about Chance Encounter at dawn or dusk then? (with some engineers and demo charges maybe).

Then again maybe it won't be a WWII setting?

Who knows?? :confused:

-tom w

[Pzman]

One can only hope it is WWII.

[British Tommy]

Well, I just hope they use a damn good server when they release the demo as the demand will be huge!

[Other Means]

Originally posted by British Tommy:

Well, I just hope they use a damn good server when they release the demo as the demand will be huge!

Seems ideal for bit torrent.

[Guest ExplodingMonkey]

Originally posted by Pzman:

One can only hope it is WWII.

Korean War. I driven enough Tigers around for now. Let's have some WWII equipment mixed in with some of the newer stuff like jets and twin-boom P51s. Was the Douglass Dauntless in action in Korea? Did the North Koreans have any IS-2s or 3s at their disposal, or did they stick mainly with T34s? Did the Chinese practice any other tactics asside from the infamous human wave attacks? Did they bring tanks and such to the fight?

Time for me to do some research.

[Battlefront.com]

We are many months away from having anything like a Demo to show you guys. I mean, even SCREENSHOTS of a Demo like environment. Unlike CMx1's development, the models and graphics are being implemented far more towards the end. For now we are using a very basic set just to test the engine's functionality. That means not so much to show until we get much closer to the game being done.

I know some of you guys will look at the above and think this is somehow a BAD thing. But really, it is the best thing possible. The whole point of CMx2's engine is to make adding models, textures, sounds, and soforth relatively easy. Therefore, instead of needing 1-2 years to flesh out a game's graphics we will only need a few months. Not so good for advanced screenshots, but a heck of a lot better in terms of getting the next game out quicker.

Don't worry... we'll show you something fairly soon. Just don't expect to see mouse holing and tons of varried terrain and models. That's a ways away still.

Steve

[General Bolt]

Originally posted by aka_tom_w:

[snip]

The hardest possible EFOW setting to play againt the AI.

-tom w

What about an FOW setting where the spotted unit nationality icons go away after 1 or 2 minutes or the icons move slightly (random direction) for every minute the unit is unspotted.

"Hmmm, now where did I spot that squad 5 minutes ago. Weren't they in those trees or was it those trees?"

[Grapeshot]

I have always had this question, why is the CM series of games not moddable? I don't mean graphic mods, I mean total conversions that change movement rates/firepower/ ect. People could take the CMBO/BB/AK and make Sci-fi (Warhammer 40k, Hammer Slammers, Battletech), Horse and Musket era, WW1 ect. Mods add longevity to your game life as well as draw and keep fans. The only reasons I can think of to keep these games non moddable is cheating could become more of a problem and to protect you game engine?

[rune]

Grspeshot,

You got it.

Rune

[aka_tom_w]

I hope BFC never releases an open standards game like Grapeshot is talking about.

I like knowing cheating is near impossble

and I like playing the game with historically accurate parameters and specs for ALL the things in the CMx1 games that make it a GREAT combat simulator AND not just another video game:

"People could take the CMBO/BB/AK and make Sci-fi (Warhammer 40k, Hammer Slammers, Battletech), Horse and Musket era, WW1 ect. Mods add longevity to your game life as well as draw and keep fans"

That "moddable" suggestion with open access to the game engine would kill the CMx1 community and hopelessly fracture it IMHO. The market and community for GOOD (great) wargames is small enough without trying to fracture it and alienate the historical accuracy fanatics (grogs) with homespun data and stats open to user manipulation and editing.

no thanks

"The only reasons I can think of to keep these games non moddable is cheating could become more of a problem and to protect you game engine?"

YES to both!

Those two points should be priorities and make the two best reasons NOT to allow the game engine to be editable.

-tom w