aka_tom_w Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 those images from Company of Heroes do look stunning! That Sherm and those soldiers look spectacular. But is the GAME any good? who knows? -tom w 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMC Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 I think that's part of the frustration. These games invest so much effort in visual realism and then gloss over the combat mechanics. They look so real and yet play so fake. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Originally posted by M1A1TankCommander: The BEST ww2 RTS game is on its way. Here is the link http://www.companyofheroesgame.com/ Great, another fabulous looking Walt Disney-wargame...I've enjoyed Brothers in Arms, but it only stayed on my pc for two weeks...and that's because I forgot to remove it after finishing it in the first week... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 The other thing to consider is that every game company puts out carefully manipulated screenshots. The only difference is how closely those shots match the real game. In our case we try VERY hard to not misrepresent anything, though of course we choose "cool" situations and camera angles. But the vast majority of game marketers aren't so concerned about potentially misleading and disapointing people AFTER they buy the game. Er... to say the least! I was working for Sierra just after they released Outpost (aka "Outhouse"), so I've seen some marketing slight of hand doosies up close One minor indication of the Company of Hero's limitations of gameplay are the units they show in the shots. Notice the guys with the communications backpacks? Notice how many of them are in those two shots? And notice how few other units can be picked out from the mix? To me this appears to be a typical RTS mix of units (i.e. 6 or 7 types, each fairly distinct from another, no variations on theme). Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Grey Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 And as it is from the same company that made ´Dawn of War´ it sure as hell will play like it - a lot of action is guaranteed and definitely NO REALISM. Yeah, no please Relic, shut this thread dwon or this forum, we have openly criticized your game and think it´s not worth playing... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromit Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Yah, my biggest gripe with all these WW2 RTS games, other than the fact that they are mass confusion, is the ranges are all ridiculous. The lines of battle are like 10-30 yards from each other! That just wrecks my whole sense of scale and immersion... why bother? Especially when they want 40-50 dollars for a game nowadays and the good game ratio is about 20%. Uggh. Gromit 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMC Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 I hadn't followed the link before. Company of Heroes being from Relic immediately raises my estimation of the game. Relic has delivered 3 outstanding titles in my book. Homeworld, Homeworld 2 and Dawn of War are all excellent games. Dawn of War is not a simulation but it captures a lot of the WH40k feel and its Rock/Paper/Scissors unit types adds lots of tactical depth. Sure it doesn't compare to CM and it doesn't shed most of the conventions of the RTS genre but it is a blast to play and in the end that is all that matters. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a1steaks Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 I know some of the guys working on Company of Heroes. Believe me, they are not going for realism in any shape or form. When my buddy first started showing me some screenshots of the game before E3 I pointed out a bunch of historical inaccuracies. He told me "Looks like I've done a good job then." It will be Dawn of War with WW2 units. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 I know some of the guys working on Company of Heroes. Believe me, they are not going for realism in any shape or form. When my buddy first started showing me some screenshots of the game before E3 I pointed out a bunch of historical inaccuracies. He told me "Looks like I've done a good job then." It will be Dawn of War with WW2 u I guess that says alot right there -tom w [ June 27, 2005, 11:01 AM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 doh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hpt. Lisse Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Exactly. Even if Company of Heroes was semi-realistic, the engagement ranges with those ultra-high res models and backdrops will be quite limited. That's why I have more hope for 1C's WWII:RTS title than COH. Also from the FiringSquad interview: "But really, the appeal of WW2RTS comes down to the same appeal that Combat Mission has: an almost asinine level of detail..." Even 1C is guilty of the ol' show 'em what ya got trap: Their E3 video definately clusters some armor elements to add some visual excitement. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Originally posted by a1steaks: I know some of the guys working on Company of Heroes. Believe me, they are not going for realism in any shape or form. When my buddy first started showing me some screenshots of the game before E3 I pointed out a bunch of historical inaccuracies. He told me "Looks like I've done a good job then." It will be Dawn of War with WW2 units. Yea, I agree. I can tell from the screen shots that this game is going to be a massive eye candy joke: Infantry assaulting in jeeps, men wearing full gear into combat including bed rolls, close in tank battles with infantry all over the place, every soldier looks as buff as Arnold S. - It makes me cringe to look at that crap. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMC Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Originally posted by Pak40: Infantry assaulting in jeeps, men wearing full gear into combat including bed rolls... LOL. Stop the presses. The grogs have spoken. The percentage of the grog population who won't buy CoH just jumped from 99% to 99.625%. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Have they unveiled their list of gameplay innovations? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Originally posted by RMC: LOL. Stop the presses. The grogs have spoken. The percentage of the grog population who won't buy CoH just jumped from 99% to 99.625%. Reminds me of people who hate James Bond movies because "that's not the way real spys work". BTW, I can't wait for the Winter Assault expansion for Dawn of War. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLM Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Realism is fun but most games only make baby steps towards realism. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Originally posted by aka_tom_w: those images from Company of Heroes do look stunning! That Sherm and those soldiers look spectacular. But is the GAME any good? who knows? -tom w Stunning? You really think so? I'm not sure I agree. The German uniforms look like crap (excuse my Polish), Andrew has forgotten more about shades of field grey than these people will ever learn. US uniforms also crap, the backpack guy seems to wear a Gulf War uniform. That cute eggshell rounding of the WWII US helmet is completely absent and I can't seem to identify the equipment carried as WWII G.I. standard. Juju needs to help them out with them weapons there, seriously. The men look ok in terms of physical frame and animation there, compared to CM. Of course, so does Lego. I mean it's not up to FPS standard here either. I can't see those tanks being a great improvement over the-by-now-old-CM tanks, is that really a higher polycount? Look at that StuG there on the other screenshot, I don't find that impressive compared to one of our total redrawn from scratch Mods. And the Tiger - compare to Andrews latest in the thread nearby here - is it really an improvement? Isn't it just the wild gunners demanding all attention, and the dynamic lighting adding delightful depth? The wheels and roadwheels (and steeringwheels) look every bit as hexagonal as in the-by-now-old-CM don't they? Seems very similar to me, and not as skillfully "painted" as our modders can do. Houses look kind of neat - except it's the same house appearing all over, and with windows and doors dead parts of the wall graphics it looks every bit as non-intractive as any CM house does (at least you can enter a CM house). A bit like the three identifiable separate US soldiers appearing all over the place, as Steve points out (the weird rucksack, the baz man and the rifleman. Of course, looks really cool with the empty cartridges pouring out of the weapons, and the lighting and explosions seems generous. Would need to be generous, with everyone standing upright blasting away at eachother from ten metres range Nah, this ain't it. We're still in Kansas. Cheers Dandelion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hpt. Lisse Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 No kidding, Dorthy. [ June 27, 2005, 07:12 PM: Message edited by: Hpt. Lisse ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMC Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 Originally posted by Dandelion: Stunning? You really think so? I'm not sure I agree. The German uniforms look like crap (excuse my Polish), Andrew has forgotten more about shades of field grey than these people will ever learn. US uniforms also crap, the backpack guy seems to wear a Gulf War uniform. That cute eggshell rounding of the WWII US helmet is completely absent and I can't seem to identify the equipment carried as WWII G.I. standard. Juju needs to help them out with them weapons there, seriously. The men look ok in terms of physical frame and animation there, compared to CM. Of course, so does Lego. I mean it's not up to FPS standard here either.And nobody who buys the game will give two shakes about any of that. They'll see Germans and Americans fighting in the streets, tanks going boom and they'll have a blast. I can't see those tanks being a great improvement over the-by-now-old-CM tanks, is that really a higher polycount? Look at that StuG there on the other screenshot, I don't find that impressive compared to one of our total redrawn from scratch Mods. And the Tiger - compare to Andrews latest in the thread nearby here - is it really an improvement? Isn't it just the wild gunners demanding all attention, and the dynamic lighting adding delightful depth? The wheels and roadwheels (and steeringwheels) look every bit as hexagonal as in the-by-now-old-CM don't they? Seems very similar to me, and not as skillfully "painted" as our modders can do.The models are definitely higher poly. They actually have the running gear and not just a texture. This CM sherman looks more angular in the turret. Note the missing hull details present on the CoH image. http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=30;t=004057 Of course, looks really cool with the empty cartridges pouring out of the weapons, and the lighting and explosions seems generous. That would seem to be the point of the venture. Would need to be generous, with everyone standing upright blasting away at eachother from ten metres range Right. 10 meters is right out. I could go for 15 though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMC Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 Holy Crap! There's video for CoH here: http://www.3dgamers.com/dlselect/games/companyheroes/companyheroes_051305_wm.zip.html Watch the Stug do a power slide. Woot! Grogs should have an air sickness bag ready. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a1steaks Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 Well, as has been stated above, they aren't going for the realism/grognard crowd. In fact, they want to stay as far away from them as possible. Relic specialize in RTS action games and they are simply trying to cash in on the current high level of interest in WW2. More power to them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 They already have all the power, and a gazillion games just like this one, from which they have already made a gazillion bucks. Everybody's just repeating predictable boredom. I say more power to Grogs. Let's see something new in this business for once. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 Originally posted by Dandelion: Andrew has forgotten more about shades of field grey than these people will ever learn. ... Juju needs to help them out with them weapons there, seriously. ... I don't find that impressive compared to one of our total redrawn from scratch Mods. And the Tiger - compare to Andrews latest in the thread nearby here - is it really an improvement?Then again, you should be drawing comparisons between the un-modded CM and that game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Grogs are right to criticize the game if it promotes itself as being "realistic". This is my beef with the PR people at most of the game companies out there. It's like they are ashamed that their games are so utterly unrealistic. That's silly. A game is only a game. It is good or it isn't. Realism has nothing inherently to do with anything. CM wouldn't have got all the attention it did if it wasn't fun to play, no matter how realistic it was. Unrealstic games have sold bazillions of units. So why lie about what a game is when such lies don't benefit the game's sales? It really baffles me Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Realism in games is a relative concept. Counter Strike is far from reality, but if you compare it to Quake/Doom, it's not impossible to consider it as realistic. Realistic in the same sense that GI Combat is compared to chess. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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