Bammer Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Hello, I understand that CMAK will have increased height, so I am wondering if Monte Cassiino would be scalable. That would be allot of fun to make and play I am going to give it a try, anyone else ?? Cordially, Bammer 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 There were a couple of ASL modules put out dealing with Cassino. The maps are certainly convertible; I bought one of them with the intention of converting some scenarios and campaigns for CMBO but lost interest when CMBB came out. Unless one of the other ASL vets tackles the project first, I may consider doing this - the maps and scenario pack I picked up include Poles, French and Americans fighting German paras. (I refer to the Critical Hit module "Carnage at Cassino" - they did a second one, I believe, covering adjacent terrain that was also fought over, including the abbey itself?) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: (I refer to the Critical Hit module "Carnage at Cassino" - they did a second one, I believe, covering adjacent terrain that was also fought over, including the abbey itself?) Mr.Picklehaube would like to point out that the abbey itself was never fought over. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Originally posted by Andreas: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: (I refer to the Critical Hit module "Carnage at Cassino" - they did a second one, I believe, covering adjacent terrain that was also fought over, including the abbey itself?) Mr.Picklehaube would like to point out that the abbey itself was never fought over. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Originally posted by Andreas: Mr.Picklehaube would like to point out that the abbey itself was never fought over. Shouldn't that be Herr Picklehaube, you Salt wannabe? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Originally posted by flamingknives: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Andreas: Mr.Picklehaube would like to point out that the abbey itself was never fought over. Shouldn't that be Herr Picklehaube, you Salt wannabe? </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emar Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Even with the increased height in CMAK I am wondering if battles such as Cassino can be done realisticaly on a large scale. Increasing the editor to level 25 equals out to around a 400 foot elevation change (Cassino rose over 1700 feet above the terrain in front of it). Of course localized battles during the conflict and the attack on the 300 foot Castle hill could be depicted well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASL Veteran Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: There were a couple of ASL modules put out dealing with Cassino. The maps are certainly convertible; I bought one of them with the intention of converting some scenarios and campaigns for CMBO but lost interest when CMBB came out. Unless one of the other ASL vets tackles the project first, I may consider doing this - the maps and scenario pack I picked up include Poles, French and Americans fighting German paras. (I refer to the Critical Hit module "Carnage at Cassino" - they did a second one, I believe, covering adjacent terrain that was also fought over, including the abbey itself?) Actually I was planning on doing some of the scenarios from Carnage at Cassino ... of course don't let that stop you from doing it anyway . I can tell you for certain though that I will not be doing the Carnage at Cassino campaign though. I will probably be taking my time getting to it anyway (and I don't actually know if my friend owns the other Cassino one - he may only own Carnage at Cassino). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinetree Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 If anyone has it,Fortress:Cassino By Heat of Battle,which is OOP, has a good map of Cassino town and Castle Hill. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bammer Posted October 18, 2003 Author Share Posted October 18, 2003 Of course, it would have to be a 5000 point sized map to do it justice ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 Originally posted by Andreas: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: (I refer to the Critical Hit module "Carnage at Cassino" - they did a second one, I believe, covering adjacent terrain that was also fought over, including the abbey itself?) Mr.Picklehaube would like to point out that the abbey itself was never fought over. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 Referring to the fact that the Abbey itself was not fought over. The Poles occupied it with no resistance after the Fallschirmjaeger moved out. What was fought over was the hill that the Abbey stood on. I.e. there was no fighting in the ruins of the Abbey. As I indicated, it is nitpicking. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 Originally posted by Andreas: Referring to the fact that the Abbey itself was not fought over. The Poles occupied it with no resistance after the Fallschirmjaeger moved out. What was fought over was the hill that the Abbey stood on. I.e. there was no fighting in the ruins of the Abbey. As I indicated, it is nitpicking. OK. Thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bammer Posted October 25, 2003 Author Share Posted October 25, 2003 Hi, I just received the back order "After The Battle" magazine on the Battle of Cassino and Monte Cassino. It has some decent pics and maps. I would have liked to see ATB do some of their own maps with modern software, instead of relying on old stuff. Thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 I do have it on good authority that the latest beta version of CMAK won't self delete itself from your hard drive if you choose to do slightly ahistorical things like fight over terrain tiles that weren't fought over in RealLife. Sidebar, anyone ever see the 1950s German flick "Green Devils of Monte Cassino?" It's about an FJ bn that's stationed by the abbey and the effort they go to to convince the clergy in there to vacate because it's just a mater of time before the allies bomb.(One of those the Germans as good guys stories) Anyways the uniforms and weapons are good, though most of the helmets are look a little small, probabbly vacuum formed plastic made for the movie. And being black and white there's plenty of good scenes cut with real footage. OK for a lark... Los 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Originally posted by Andreas: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by flamingknives: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Andreas: Mr.Picklehaube would like to point out that the abbey itself was never fought over. Shouldn't that be Herr Picklehaube, you Salt wannabe? </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melb_will Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Los I'm pretty sure if you look at it closely in the case of Monte Cassino the Germans were the good guys. (Leaving aside the whole evil third reich stuff) There was a strong gentlemans agreement between the Germans and the Franscicans? not to use the Abbey for Military purposes, up to the point I believe that a line was drawn around it that the FJ's were forbidden to cross. The stink that was created when the allies bombed it was world wide. Just look at old newspapers of the time. It was not untill after the abbey was bombed and the monks and several hundred refugees evacuated that the FJ's moved in. So in this case they were right and we were wrong. Will 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Originally posted by melb_will: Los I'm pretty sure if you look at it closely in the case of Monte Cassino the Germans were the good guys. (Leaving aside the whole evil third reich stuff) There was a strong gentlemans agreement between the Germans and the Franscicans? not to use the Abbey for Military purposes, up to the point I believe that a line was drawn around it that the FJ's were forbidden to cross. The stink that was created when the allies bombed it was world wide. Just look at old newspapers of the time. It was not untill after the abbey was bombed and the monks and several hundred refugees evacuated that the FJ's moved in. So in this case they were right and we were wrong. Will Did the Allies have any bloody idea what the Germans were promising the Franciscans? There was something of a war going on at the time, and all, so I'd be surprised to learn that the Germans were giving their dispositions freely to the Allies. That given the case, why call it "wrong"? The Germans were believed to be in strong defensive positions (for some several weeks/months) and the necessary action was taken. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinetree Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 My grandfather fought there with 2NZ Div. and he remembers the Abbey just looming over the whole area.They all reckoned the germans were using it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chek Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Just finished reading Kippenberger's Infantry Brigadier(a damn good read by the way) and according to him it was the NZ Corp who requested its bombing.They were convinced the germans were using it as an OP. Bloody Kiwi's eh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinzBaby Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 yeah, don't pussy around with us Kiwis m8, we don't have much but we know how to use it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 I seem to remember this being a big point of contention. It would appear that the Germans certainly did not fire from it but there is a high degree of speculation that they did use it as an OP and this is why it was brought down. In CM terms are you going to allow an arty OP to have a clear view of your forces, or are you going to create a huge pile of rubble and dust. To say one side or the other was the good guys is painting too simplistic a picture. IMO In hindsight I think bringing it down just gave the Germans a better position to defend from. H 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Originally posted by Chek: Just finished reading Kippenberger's Infantry Brigadier(a damn good read by the way) and according to him it was the NZ Corp who requested its bombing.They were convinced the germans were using it as an OP. Bloody Kiwi's eh Yep, that's what I read somewhere. It is a perfect site for an OP. The Allies got a big trashing. The English general in Command faced some accusations of wasting CW lives. He wanted to make damn sure the CW divisions get the best support available. ANZAC wants the abbey bombed? After all they have to blame something for not being able to advance and the accurate fire on their positions. From a purely military point of view, the abey is THE target. No problem, just order in the Air Force. And I bet afterwards nobody accused that general of not supporting the CW divisions as good as possible. BTW: The Germans even evacuated the art from the abbey to the Vatican! (also featured in that movie...). And I doubt the numerous Italian partisans were unable to tell the dispostion regarding the abbey to the Allies. The only question is whether the Allies believed that info... @Holien: Letting loose a million points (in CM terms) to annihilate a single FO (or two)? Maybe you create some rubble, and some temporary dust (being a mountaintop, there is a strong wind clearing any dust soon). But once the smoke settles, the rubble on the mountaintop is still a good OP. Just send some other FO in. So I doubt it made sense to send in an air fleet just to erase an OP. Gruß Joachim [ October 28, 2003, 07:34 AM: Message edited by: Scarhead ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 The allies didn't have to fight at Monte Cassino. All that was needed was for Lucas to push the Anzio forces to route 6, and the whole Gustav line would have collapsed like a house of cards. In fact, there was nothing standing in the way of Lucas 'cept a few drunken Germans and an old guy pushing a vegtable cart. He could have been in Rome in 8 hours and as far as the Alpine passes inside of 2 days. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Originally posted by Kingfish: He could have been in Rome in 8 hours and as far as the Alpine passes inside of 2 days.This is a joke, right? Colorful figures of speech and all? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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