Shep Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 I know there was a lot of talk a couple of weeks ago about Hill 621... but wasn't that originally an SL or COI scenario? I want to open up this can of worms again to kill a little more time before we all get the game. Depends on your criteria. 1) "The Guards Counterattack" has a strong bid to be the first because it was the first... I think. 2) Or the first Beyond Valor scenario with the Finns and Russians in that burning town, "Fighting Withdrawal." 3) For sheer fun what would it be? How about "The Schoolhouse"? What rock and roll armor scenario would you favor? Here's a list of Scenarios from Beyond Valor: ASL Scenario 1 Fighting Withdrawal ASL Scenario 2 Mile 18 ASL Scenario 3 The Czerniakow Bridgehead ASL Scenario 4 The Commissar's House ASL Scenario 5 In Sight of the Volga ASL Scenario 6 Red Packets ASL Scenario 7 Dash for the Bridge ASL Scenario 8 The Fugitives ASL Scenario 9 To the Square ASL Scenario 10 The Citadel And from Streets of Fire: Deluxe ASL Scenario 1 Guryev's Headquarters Deluxe ASL Scenario 2 Berserk! Deluxe ASL Scenario 3 Storming the Factory Deluxe ASL Scenario 4 First to Strike Deluxe ASL Scenario 5 Little Stalingrad Deluxe ASL Scenario 6 Draconian Measures Deluxe ASL Scenario 7 With Flame and Shell Deluxe ASL Scenario 8 The Schoolhouse Deluxe ASL Scenario 9 Preparing the Way Deluxe ASL Scenario 10 The Final Battle Ah the fond memories! Perhaps a poll would be in order? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 Why not all of them.....? Actually, I am looking forward to some of the small meeting engagements from the Rogue Scenarios. Some of the victory conditions of the ASL scenarios will be hard to meet - these will have to be heavily tested before they are playable as CM scenarios. Many of the ASL conversions for CMBO were just simply not that good (I number my own conversions in that category). I have fonder memories of SL and COI scenarios in any event - the ASL ones from Beyond Valor were actually kind of boring and lifeless. Red Barricades, on the other hand.... [ September 12, 2002, 06:22 PM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianc Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 I'm probably OT, since I think it was a COI scenario, but how about 'Paw of the Tiger' (I think), where Hans Bolter sits on a hill and beats back a Russian brigade with the help of a couple piddly Mk IV's? ianc 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shep Posted September 13, 2002 Author Share Posted September 13, 2002 Paw of the Tiger was a beaut, as I recall. I guess they all qualify, come to think of it, since CMBB can handle converting them all to a certain degree. Michael has a good point about the victory conditions. I think we'll really have to consider the spirit of the scenario and not the letter, especially if re-creating the letter is impossible. As for playtesting and balancing, we already have a fair number of volunteers. It would be nice to have more, and perhaps in the discussion and testing we can overcome the obstacles inherent in the task. I also recall that the Italian ASL module had at least one battle against the Russians. There were, of course, many from the ASL annuals and other publications. [ September 12, 2002, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: Shep ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Leader Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 SL Scenario 1-3, The Tractorworks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 "Red Barricades" as an operation. It is what I always imagined BTS had in mind when they created operations which were continuous battles in the same area as opposed to non-linked battles from the same war. I could see playing that over and over and over and over and..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Cansell Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 IMO ... ASL Scenario 6 Red Packets - Is interesting, unusual early war armour? ASL Scenario 8 The Fugitives - Great Scenario, when played as the germans - the break for freedom! BUT I'd go for Hill 621 - the SL/ASL divide doesn't really affect the feel of it, again probably better when played as the germans. Paw of the Tiger is nice for armour freaks - although the ASL version is more accurate in using Pz IIIMs for support instead of the Pz IV(F/G/H) used in the original COI version. Weapon failure in either of the Tigers can affect the outcome to greatly to my mind 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefly Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 Just a friendly reminder guys, be careful in labelling your ASL conversions. Remember what happened to the ASL for CM site. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shep Posted September 13, 2002 Author Share Posted September 13, 2002 Just a friendly reminder guys, be careful in labelling your ASL conversions. Remember what happened to the ASL for CM site. What would be some wise and respectful guidelines for labelling the conversions? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 Originally posted by Shep: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Just a friendly reminder guys, be careful in labelling your ASL conversions. Remember what happened to the ASL for CM site. What would be some wise and respectful guidelines for labelling the conversions?</font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Stone Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 "Guard Counter" & "Tractor Works" must be the first. Played by how many-- how many times? Millions and Millions served. [ September 13, 2002, 07:33 AM: Message edited by: David Stone ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abbott Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 My all time favorite was Cross of Iron's "Breakout at Borisov". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shep Posted September 13, 2002 Author Share Posted September 13, 2002 "Tractor Works" must be the first. Played by how many-- how many times? Millions and Millions served.-and- My all time favorite was Cross of Iron's "Breakout at Borisov".It's been a long time for some of us, and there are others who've never laid eyes on those scenarios. What were they about? What kind of unit mix did they feature? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefly Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: The ASL for CM site was shut down because it used copyrighted artwork; using scenarios as a basis for conversions should not be a problem.You're probably right, but I think using the letters ASL (probably copyright) in the title of the page could be what alerted the lawyers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medlinke Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 Copyright issues for ASL Remember that MMP is not really the controlling figure here...it's Hasbro They are VERY serious about things such as: * Scenario Card Text (don't just dupe it) * Graphics BIG TIME (just don't do it for reasonse already mentioned) * Scenario Names (though close approximations are fine) etc. I am looking forward to the Commisar's House myself...however, I think that there are some really intriguing battles in the Journals etc 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splooger Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 The Guards Counterattack, the first and still one of the best ASL scenarios. I played this more than any other. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 I don't recall is the ASL2CM website had the logos and artwork copied but many of the scenario titles and some of the briefings were a bit too close. I think it would help to call them "CM Conversions", use original briefings and change the title some. It would help if the boards were titled differently, like maps with Roman Numerals instead of standard numbers. So what you would have is "CMC 1, Counterattack of the Guards using map I". Units of course are already different just by the nature of the system and time frames are often different as well since what works in ASL doesn't always work in CM timewise. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abbott Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 Originally posted by Shep: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />"Tractor Works" must be the first. Played by how many-- how many times? Millions and Millions served.-and- My all time favorite was Cross of Iron's "Breakout at Borisov".It's been a long time for some of us, and there are others who've never laid eyes on those scenarios. What were they about? What kind of unit mix did they feature?</font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpkr Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 Here is a rundown of the SL scenarios: </font>1 -- The Guards Counterattack - A Stalingrad scenario - a company of Guards and support units attack a smaller German company in urban terrain. </font>2 -- The Tractor Works - Another Stalingrad scenario depicting an assault on the Dzerzhinsky Tractor Works by a reinforced German assault engineer battalion against the factory garrison. </font>3 -- The Streets of Stalingrad - Combines scenarios 1 and 2 and adds armor for both sides. </font>4 -- The Hedgehog of Piepsk - No, this is not a Ron Jeremy movie; rather, it represents a Russian rifle battalion attacking a German garrison in a small village in November 1941. </font>5 -- Hill 621 - In July 1944, the Russians began an attack that eventually became known as the 'Destruction of Army Group Centre'. This scenario begins with a Russian rifle battalion attacking the retreating remnants of a nearby German village garrison. The Germans are slowly but surely reinforfced by armor and infantry, as are the Soviets. This was one of the best original SL scenarios IMHO. </font>6 -- Escape from Velikiye Luki - In Jnauary 1943, the Soviets cut off German outposts from their main lines. This is an exit scenario set at night. Given the size of the forces and maps involved, it may not make much of a conversion scenario. </font>13 -- The Capture of Balta - An August 1941 scenario depicting a combined force of Rumanians and German Pioneers assaulting a Russian force holding a small village. </font>14 -- The Paw of the Tiger -- In January 1943, Hauptmann Hans Bolter's Tigers, with a little help, fought off an entire Russian Tank brigade advancing on his position. This scenario represents that engagement. </font>15 -- Hube's Pocket -- In April 1944, the Russains were pushing the German army back towards the Carpathian Mountains, encircling several large German formations. General Hube and Field Marshall Manstein hatched a plan to use the 2nd SS (or is it WaffenGrenadier) Corps to breakout. This scenario is pretty good -- SS versus an advancing Russian armored formation. Here, the Germans must exit a convoy of trucks representing portions of the escaping army. </font>16 -- Sowchos 79 - December 1942 - German Panzers and Panzergrenadiers attack a Soviet motorized infantry battalion (later reinforced by armor) holding a collective farm west of Stalingrad. </font>17 -- Debacle at Korosten -- August 1941 - Russian Cavalry raids a German rear echelon force. I had really wanted horses to replay this battle. </font>18 -- The Defense of Luga July 1941 - A mixed Russian infantry and armor force attacks a german infantry and artillery detachment in an attempt to break out of the pocket and rejoin the Soviet forces retreating towards Leningrad. </font>19 -- A Winter Melee -- February 1942 -- Soviet partisans, later joined by cavalry and air-dropped paratroops attacks a recon column of the 1st Panzer Regiment. </font>20 -- Breakout from Borisov -- July 1941 - The 52nd Panzer Grenadier Reigment, including a variety of armored forces and infantry, attacks an ad hoc Soviet force from a local Armored Forces Training College. Air power is available for the Germans here. </font>Hope that helps some. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIATpunk Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 You're probably right, but I think using the letters ASL (probably copyright) in the title of the page could be what alerted the lawyers.Other companies who release maps / modules /scens for use with ASL don't reference the original product at all in print - they call it something like "ad. Sq. ld." or similar "close but not breaching copyright" descriptions. I would suggest a similar tack with anyone trying to release ASL-inspired scens - don't call them the same scenario name or mention ASL/SL anywhere. But it makes it a tad difficult to then make them identifiable as ASL/SL scens I suppose Chris 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abbott Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 MrSpkr (snip) Hill 621 - In July 1944, the Russians began an attack that eventually became known as the 'Destruction of Army Group Centre'. This scenario begins with a Russian rifle battalion attacking the retreating remnants of a nearby German village garrison. The Germans are slowly but surely reinforfced by armor and infantry, as are the Soviets. This was one of the best original SL scenarios IMHO. Sowchos 79 - December 1942 - German Panzers and Panzergrenadiers attack a Soviet motorized infantry battalion (later reinforced by armor) holding a collective farm west of Stalingrad. ------------------------------------------ Two more very fun and playable battles. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mscano Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 guards counterattack for sure! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpius1001 Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 Hey dont forget those battles in Cross of Iron....If I can just find it in all these boxes!!!..P.S. would'nt it be trippy to play thoses scnarios..and see a factory pumping out T-34's just before you assault it!!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gredeker Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 Originally posted by scorpius1001: Hey dont forget those battles in Cross of Iron....If I can just find it in all these boxes!!!..P.S. would'nt it be trippy to play thoses scnarios..and see a factory pumping out T-34's just before you assault it!!!!That could work! Just create a factory with a courtyard type area, put some reinforcement flags in the courtyard, and have green or conscript T-34s appear in ones and twos to trundle forth. I like it! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Harrison Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 By far, hill 621. IMO, that will make one of the best conversions there is to find out there in shere fun factor!!! What do the russians get? Something like 45 squads!!?!! Personally, just look forward to playing the game, no matter what scenario I am playing! Chad 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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