1st ASL Scenario Conversion Should Be???

[Xavier]

My favourite is "Breakout from Borisow" but we have to remplace the multi-turreted T28 (not in CMBB ) by another tank type...

[Abbott]

Would anyone happen to have some picture files of the Squad Leader/Cross of Iron boards or a link where they may be found?

[Pascal DI FOLCO]

dah dah dah all,

Only one name : HILL 621 !!!

This is the scen that makes me love SL - The Stalingrad scens 1-3 where somewhat of a slugfest, tense but less entertaining ...

About AS2CM site : as I recall the incident, the guy who ran the site had some message from Hasblown, somewhat natsy but not really menacing.

He gave up very quickly then, also because he had RL commitment (at least that's what he told).

Some obscure Canuck modder recently did an *copyrighted game of tactical combat* Interface for CMBO, and has'nt been hanged out yet (we hope it'll be soon - huh, Hi Michael, how do you do ? )

[Abbott]

bump

[Shep]

Okay, all.

I'm willing to jump into Hill 621, and then one of the Stalingrad scenarios right after, or maybe even concurrently. Let's keep a good line of communication open through the Scenario Talk forum, and make these into fun and well-balanced efforts. I'm willing to put in some organizational leadership, but I certainly can't do it all.

What should the stages for development be? Any of you scenario design vets want to chime in here?

[Spook]

"Sowchos 79" should definitely rank among the SL scenarios to be mirrored into a CM scenario.

The "Streets of Stalingrad" series would be fascinating, but I'd rather that conversions be done of the "Red Barricades" map, developing both scenarios and operations from that. In fact, as I have a copy of RB, I may just do so myself.

[Harold]

A few combined arms scenarios include The Defense of Luga, The Liberators, The Awakwening of Spring and Hill 253.5. Good all armor incluse Tiger, Tiger and Clash along the Psel. Quickies include Sklovs Labors Lost, Guards Counterattack and Soldiers of Destruction.

One thing that may help or squash some scenarios is how large city buildings are dealt with. In CMBO all city boards were difficult to convert because of the inability to move from building to building or make one bigger one. It sounds like things will be quite different in CMBB and I hope so. Then there will be Red Barricades and Valor of the Guards...........

[Ace Pilot]

While I loved the SL Streets of Stalingrad scenarios, I’m betting there will be multiple Stalingrad scenarios on the CD. For that reason, my vote goes to Hedgehog of Piepsk. A handful of Germans holding off hordes of Russians, mostly because of a well place MG and accompanying leader. I tried to duplicate this idea in CMBO using a .50 cal MG and wide-open ground. Not surprisingly, the .50 cal was unable to slow the enemy approach to any noticeable degree. I’m betting that won’t be true in CMBB, from what I’ve seen of the demo.

I’m also looking forward to Paw of the Tiger. As I recall, 5 German tanks were an even match for more than 30 Soviet tanks, thanks to hull down positions and some good German leadership. Anyone think the optics and hull down advantages in CMBB will be enough to make it an even fight? I’m betting that the Soviets will have an advantage through sheer numbers since the SL scenario provided pretty short engagement ranges (less than 1,000m, IIRC), which would tend to negate German optics benefits.

Ace

[ARRPEEGEE]

The 'ol SL scenario "Hube's pocket" from COI-That one was great.

heh..this thread should have a 'nostalgia incuding' warning on it brings back lot's of memories

[ September 13, 2002, 02:44 PM: Message edited by: mch ]

[Spook]

Originally posted by Harold:

One thing that may help or squash some scenarios is how large city buildings are dealt with. In CMBO all city boards were difficult to convert because of the inability to move from building to building or make one bigger one. It sounds like things will be quite different in CMBB and I hope so. Then there will be Red Barricades and Valor of the Guards...........

At the least, the CMBB additions of sewers, factory buildings and more rubble types should help to a degree.

[xerxes]

I hope they're better than the the CMBO ASL scenarios. Quite honestly, they were pretty darn poor. Not the fault of the authors, the scenarios just didn't seem to convert well. Maybe if the authors took some more liberties it would work out better.

[ASL Veteran]

Originally posted by xerxes:

I hope they're better than the the CMBO ASL scenarios. Quite honestly, they were pretty darn poor. Not the fault of the authors, the scenarios just didn't seem to convert well. Maybe if the authors took some more liberties it would work out better.

I don't know if you were playing vs the AI or against a human opponent but you probably will be disappointed in them vs the AI. I can honestly say that all the ones I've played PBEM vs other players seemed to work just fine, and most of my regular opponents continued to play other conversions as they were produced. Even untweaked all of my local friends were in agreement that the balance on ASL conversions was generally better than the balance on non conversions when played PBEM. Of course they were probably a little biased in favor of the ASL scenarios since I was making the scenarios for them. Versus the AI ... well the scenarios were pretty boring - just as I would expect them to be. The AI isn't sophisticated enough to use the forces to their maximum potential, so a designer targeting the AI playing crowd has different criteria to meet than a designer targeting the PBEM crowd. I would venture to say that it is more difficult to design a scenario that is primarily to be played vs the AI.

Having said that though, one does have to be fairly selective about which scenarios to convert. You are right in that many do not convert well. Many of mine were requests by local friends who insisted I do a certain one or another even after I protested its lack of suitability. Since my friend had all the scenario cards and the boards I had to comply . Believe it or not, I started converting when my friend would bring over the appropriate boards and the scenario card and say "I want to play this one - make it so." I also never converted any with the primary intent of posting them on the web for the CM community at large. I was doing them for myself and my friends. If anyone else wanted to try them, well that was fine too. I have much more control over my selection this time though because my friend moved up to Reno and left me with unfettered access to "the goods"!!

I think my approach will be different this time. I've had enough practice with converting that I have a lot of the more thorny issues under control. They will still be as exact as possible, but I have a better fix on some minor balance issues. I'm sure many will be doing conversions in the weeks ahead, and after designing scenarios for many different games over the years (TOAW, Age of Rifles, CM) I've found that two people seldom interpret the same thing in the same way. Even two people making ASL to CMBB conversions from the same scenario card making them as exact as possible will differ in many aspects. So, if someone plans on doing a conversion don't feel the need to rush out and "stake a claim" on scenario X or scenario Y because their vision will not necessarily coincide with someone else's vision of the same scenario. We can have ten different conversions of "Hill 621" and they can all coexist in harmony . It is for this reason that I always include "conversion notes" so people can see the reason why something is represented or not. At the request of an anonymous gamer though I'm including per side conversion notes this time around so the conversion notes will not give away info for those who have never played a certain scenario before and want to play it blind.

Having thumbed through just about .... no, every scenario card for ASL, I can say that there are more than 100 scenarios set on the Eastern Front that have at least a company of troops on both sides. There are probably another 50 or so (I haven't actually counted them cause I think they are all too small to convert) that have forces smaller than a company on each side. Of those approximately 150 + I have filtered them down to about 40 that are suitable for conversion (no oddball special rules, victory conditions can be simulated, etc). I also intend to spend much more time on these than I did on the CMBO ones using all that I've picked up in my previous 30 + CMBO attempts. Every per side briefing is at least 4 kb in size with many that are 6 kb in size. I hope to add a little atmosphere with the briefings .... which are actually one of the most difficult parts of making a CM scenario (believe it or not). A guy can spend a long time staring at the notepad thinking "I really have to come up with something here!!" A briefing can literally make or break your little creation so don't forget about them when making your conversions!

[Holdit]

I seem to remember enjoying Sowchos 79 best.

[dragonwagon]

All good scenario's, but what about the original Tournament Scenario's ? Like First Crisis at Army Group North,and Land Leviathans,to name a couple,these are two that I will make for sure.Grand ! Liquid ASL , The Joy ! :cool:

[Shep]

Having thumbed through just about .... no, every scenario card for ASL, I can say that there are more than 100 scenarios set on the Eastern Front that have at least a company of troops on both sides. There are probably another 50 or so (I haven't actually counted them cause I think they are all too small to convert) that have forces smaller than a company on each side.

ASL Vet: I'm curious why you feel the smaller-sized ASL engagements suffer disqualification in CM. Please elucidate.

Mark

[Shep]

I sold my near-complete ASL set a year or two ago, and hadn't played it much since the advent of children and CM (both seem to quash ASL equally, with the sum being a total quashing).

As I recall, the scale was 40 meters/hex (about 2 CM tiles) and 30 seconds per turn (or was that half-turn?). Because of the gross weight of events in an ASL turn, the number of turns was quite limited... usually around 8-12. CM games run on the average significantly longer. What does one do with the differences in scale and event/time-compression?

[ASL Veteran]

Originally posted by Shep:

ASL Vet: I'm curious why you feel the smaller-sized ASL engagements suffer disqualification in CM. Please elucidate.

Mark

The smaller scenarios generally suffer from force to space ratio. There is also not enough for the player to do in CM with such small forces. CM handles much larger battles much more easily than ASL did because most of the stuff you have to do in CM is done by the computer. I recall a poll done on Col Klotz's site where he asked what size scenario most players enjoyed playing. Very few people selected "Tiny". The most popular size was "Medium" or "Small" IIRC. Huge was just as unpopular as "Tiny" which actually surprised me a little.

[ASL Veteran]

Originally posted by Shep:

I sold my near-complete ASL set a year or two ago, and hadn't played it much since the advent of children and CM (both seem to quash ASL equally, with the sum being a total quashing).

As I recall, the scale was 40 meters/hex (about 2 CM tiles) and 30 seconds per turn (or was that half-turn?). Because of the gross weight of events in an ASL turn, the number of turns was quite limited... usually around 8-12. CM games run on the average significantly longer. What does one do with the differences in scale and event/time-compression?

It's going to be difficult to do conversions without the game ... . In any event, the time scale was supposedly 2 minutes per ASL turn, although if you do some testing you will find that around 3.5 to 4 minutes per turn is a little more appropriate. By testing I mean set up a platoon of infantry and time how long it takes them to walk 280 meters in CM (that is how far a platoon can move with a leader including the advance phase in ASL - 7 hexes). There has to be a little fudge factor in terms of time though and that will be a primary balancing tool.

There are numerous other factors to consider too. I have written up a five page Microsoft Word document on how to convert ASL scenarios to CM (which I actually just updated last night). If you are interested I can send it to you.

I am planning on ... around four or five scenario packs. Each would have between 7 and 10 scenarios, an AAR from my PBEM playtest for each scenario, and my five page "how to" converting document. I'm thinking of a "Classic Pack" which would have scenarios that only use the first five boards, a "Deluxe Pack" which will only be Deluxe scenarios, a "Historical Pack" which will only have ASL Historical scenarios, and maybe a "Early War Pack" or something which will have scenarios set in 41 through 43 followed by a second "Late War Pack" that will have scenarios set in 44 and 45. The scenarios are already selected and half the briefings are written. All I need is the game and some time to work on them. Naturally it would take quite a while to complete these and test them - and write all those AARs. I plan on putting an av (for ASL Veteran of course) followed by a date (like 4106 or somefink) in front of the scenario title so they will all be in one place in your scenario folder (toward the top naturally enough )and sorted by date. This sorting method compliments of a suggestion by Michael Dorosh.

[Shep]

Conversion is not so much my bag as playtesting, which I intend on doing both vs. the computer and vs. (at least semi-)human types. However, I'd love to have your notes on conversion, as I believe it will be valuable in playtesting as well.

shepfrbc@mindspring.com

I do have access to both board and scenario information through VASL and other online resources for ASL. Even MultiMan has the .pdf files for their out of print scenarios.

[Abbott]

Originally posted by Shep:

Conversion is not so much my bag as playtesting, which I intend on doing both vs. the computer and vs. (at least semi-)human types. However, I'd love to have your notes on conversion, as I believe it will be valuable in playtesting as well.

shepfrbc@mindspring.com

I do have access to both board and scenario information through VASL and other online resources for ASL. Even MultiMan has the .pdf files for their out of print scenarios.

What is VASL? Is there a link?

[Shep]

Virtual ASL

[Harold]

I enjoy converting scenarios probably more than actually playing so once the game comes out I will be hard at work doing conversions of something. I may have read Michael's Conversion guidelines if it was up on the old ASL2CM site but I'm not certain. One thing I did for leaders when converting them to CM was a 10-3 went to a +2 attributes on all of a Battalion/Company/Platoon HQ, a 10-2 +2 on 3 and a +1 on the 4th and so on until you got down to a 7-0 which only had two +1 attributes or one +2. I then used these as a kind of balancing mechanism first before making changes elsewhere. Seemed to work.

[medlinke]

I am currently working on ASL 6, Red Packets. I am doing a few things with it.

I am writing a tutorial and designer notes on how I converted the scenario, the map, etc.

I am going to document the playtesting

I am going to address the copyright issues that are involved. Keep in mind that IP is something that is also addressed by "copyright" in general, and that too needs to be taken into account.

I am looking for some playtesters though. Email medlinke@msu.edu and you will be added to the list. I will be taking 10 people for the playtesting. To apply please send me:

* Name

* Email

* Years playing CM

* Why you would make a good playtester

* Amount of time you have to participate in this playtest

* If you would be willing to release your comments about the playtesting process, scenario, etc.

If this sounds like something you would be interested in please let me know! Like I said I have room for 10 people. I will post back to this thread once everyone has been chosen.

I expect the whole process to take something like 4 - 6 weeks in all. That will cover, technical problems, faithfulness to the game rules, addressing playability issues, multiplayer, balance issues, etc.

The final reporting on this project will probably come out sometime in April.

Keith

PS. I forgot to mention the scenario has already been completed, so those signing up would be getting the scenario as soon as I got my playtesters.

Check out a screenshot of the final map with unit placements

[ January 27, 2003, 12:43 AM: Message edited by: medlinke ]

[wings7]

Having played a little ASL myself, I'd like to see some conversions. I'm just starting out with CM (I ordered it a couple days ago, come on February...get here soon). SL/ASL was one of the modern forerunners for all the war games we play today.

[MrSpkr]

Originally posted by wings7:

Having played a little ASL myself, I'd like to see some conversions. I'm just starting out with CM (I ordered it a couple days ago, come on February...get here soon). SL/ASL was one of the modern forerunners for all the war games we play today.

wings, there are several SL conversions by myself and ASLveteran (among others) at The Scenario Depot. ASLVet tends to modify his scenarios slightly (or significantly, as needed) to take advantage of CMBB features or quirks; I tend to keep force content and maps as close to the original SL as possible and modify experience, morale, etc., to balance. Difference in style, I suppose.

Try some and review them today! Note that on the Depot, once you find one SL or ASL scenario, you can link to all other scenarios by the same author by clicking on the scenario name at the upper fight side of the scenario description.

To toot my own horn, there are several listed under the "S" section of CMBB (SL# - Name).

Steve