Replacing the mouse when playing CM or CM2 for that matter

[lcm1947]

I'm not sure if anyone will know or can answer but thought I'd start my search here. I am starting to have wrist and arm pains when playing CM alot - which I do - just about every day for hours. Anyway, I was wondering if I could use one of the hand devices out there to remedy this somewhat painful feeling. In other words would the game function properly if one used one instead of the old mouse. Oh and by the way I actually use the Logitech ball mouse and thought that they were supposed to avoid this problem. Any help would be appreciated and if something else would work any ideas what would be best? Thanking in advance and BTS feel free to comment if you know anything.

[aka_tom_w]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by lcm1947:

I'm not sure if anyone will know or can answer but thought I'd start my search here. I am starting to have wrist and arm pains when playing CM alot - which I do - just about every day for hours. Anyway, I was wondering if I could use one of the hand devices out there to remedy this somewhat painful feeling. In other words would the game function properly if one used one instead of the old mouse. Oh and by the way I actually use the Logitech ball mouse and thought that they were supposed to avoid this problem. Any help would be appreciated and if something else would work any ideas what would be best? Thanking in advance and BTS feel free to comment if you know anything.<hr></blockquote>

I'm not a doctor but Carpal Tunnel Syndrome or RSI (repetitive stress injury) is a VERY serious issue.

Folks out there who use the computer keyboard all day at work (and/or play CMBO) and then play CMBO for hours at time again once they get home risk CTS

You might be interested in this web page:

http://www.ctsplace.com/whatis.php

from this web page:

http://www.carpaltunnelfaq.com/whatiscarpaltunnel.html

What is Carpal Tunnel Syndrome?

Carpal tunnel syndrome is the most well known of a series of musculoskeletal disorders (MSDs) that fall under the umbrella of Repetitive Strain Injuries

(RSIs). Repetitive Strain Injuries (RSIs) are a variety of soft tissue (nerve, tendon, muscule) conditions that result from repeated motions performed in

the course of normal work or other daily activities. RSIs may be caused by overexertion, incorrect posture, muscle fatigue, compression of nerves or

tissue, too many uninterrupted repetitions of an activity or motion, or friction caused by an unnatural or awkward motion such as twisting the arm or

wrist. Over time, these conditions can cause temporary or permanent damage to the soft tissues in the body: such as the muscles, nerves, tendons, and

ligaments. RSIs can occur in the hands, wrists, elbows, shoulders, neck, back, hips, knees, feet, legs, and ankles, however, the hands and arms are most

often affected. RSIs may include such conditions as carpal tunnel syndrome, bursitis, tendonitis, epicondylitis, ganglion cyst, tenosynovitis, and

trigger finger. Symptoms of these disorders may include pain, tingling or numbness, visible swelling or redness of the affected area, and loss of

flexibility and strength. For some individuals, there may be no visible sign of injury although they may find it hard to perform easy tasks without

discomfort, pain or weakness.

Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, like most RSIs, is cumulative in nature meaning that it is often not the result of a specific isolated incident but rather is a

condition that develops gradually over time. The Carpal Tunnel itself is an area of the wrist containing the carpal tunnel, carpal ligaments, the

median nerve and tendons that effect finger and hand movement. This area contains ligaments, nerves, blood and soft tissue connecting the arm with

the hand and fingers. Carpal Tunnel Syndrome occurs when for a number of possible reasons there is swelling of the soft tissue in this region. This

swelling may be due to overuse, friction, fluid retention, infection or even a fracture. This swelling in and of itself would not be as critical if it wasn't for

the fact that this is a tight area. Hence there is no room for this swelling to occur and naturally decrease. Rather, due to the ligaments and bones being

in close confinement in this area, the swelling causes compression as it contacts other structures within this region. This compression can adversely

effect the functionality of the median nerve in the wrist. It can also lead to a blocking of the blood supply to the area and hence further difficulty.

Where do I Get more Information?

As well as visiting our related site, www.goldtouch.com , further information may be found at www. tifaq.org as well as at www.niosh.com.

Glossary:

Carpal Tunnel: the structure in the wrist which allows for the passage of ligaments, blood and nerves from the arm to the hand.

Carpal Tunnel Syndrome (CTS): pain, weakness, tingling, numbness in the fingers, hand and wrist due to pressure in the carpal tunnel region, and on the

median nerve

Median Nerve: an important nerve that links the arm with the hand. It is involved in the coordination of the thumb, index finger, middle and ring finger.

MSD: The term "musculoskeletal disorders" refers to conditions that involve the nerves, tendons, muscles and supporting structures of the body.

Repetitive Motion Disorders (RMDs): Another term for RSI.

Tendonitis: and inflammation of a tendon ( tendons connect muscles to bone).

Thoracic Outlet Syndrome (TOS): Consists of symptoms caused by compression of the nerves (or blood vessels) in the brachial plexus (nerves that pass into

the arms from the neck). Patients may have pain in the shoulder, arm, or hand, or in all three locations. The hand pain is often most severe in the fourth and fifth

fingers. The pain is aggravated by the use of the arm, and "fatigue" of the arm is often prominent.

Traverse Carpal Ligament: a structure that holds the bones of the carpal tunnel together.

Ulnar Nerve: another nerve that controls finger and hand movement. Not directly involved with carpal tunnel syndrome but is linked to other overuse injuries

including tennis elbow.

[lcm1947]

Thanks aka_tom_w for the reply. I am somewhat aware of this problem and is the reason why my post. I damn sure am not giving up my CM playing so was hoping a hand controller would solve the problem if they would work with the game. Any advice on if these devices would work with the game. Again, appreciate the info and help.

[Soddball]

See if you can get yourself a gel mouse pad. It's a normal mouse pad with a gel wrist support. Supposed to be very good, our Health & Safety officer at work buys them buy the boxload

I've got a Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer and I don't end up with wrist pains since I bought it. Each to their own, though.

[lcm1947]

Thanks Soddball I'll take a look at the mouse you are using and also the wrist pad. Appreicate the reply.

[imported_Steel_Rain]

I think the question He is asking is if other types of devices will work with CM. Since the game is windows based, any pointing device that windows recognizes should work. Personal exprience tells me that in the end of the day, mice are better. I have tried a scratch pad (on my laptop) a trackball and a pointing stick (erasor thing on some laptops). All of them work but most suck for fine control. Take care.

Kevin;

[lcm1947]

Thanks Kevin. I think that answers my main question. Darn it! Oh well, maybe I'll just have to go visit the old Doc. and see what he thinks as far as the pain but maybe the wrist pad that Soddball mentioned might help. So I'm off to Best Buy to see about one. Thanks guys for the info and help.

[Stoffel]

I had the same problems few months ago

There are no things that cure your complaints,only slowing down playing.

Or taking periods of rest between games/turns

usually a few minutes after each half hour you played

Exercising your arm/wrest/shoulder musscles is very helpfull too,go to a gym, where they have professionals who can help you or better a physiotherapist

Other thing you can do is look for a mousepointer which can be clipped on a pair of glasses

it is used by people whitout arms/hands

but that is an exp3ensive option though.

[Doug Beman]

I'll echo what Stoffel said. When my sister moved into New Jersey in 1995 she started working in a number of positions involving heavy clerical work. She began having such pain in her wrists that she had to wear braces, and virtually any activity (even lifting a pot of soup off the stove) was impossible.

She started exercising, cardio stuff mainly, but did a lot of forearm exercises, had a squishy-ball thing in her car to do hand exercises during stopped traffic. She's been pain free for years.

DjB

[Screamineagle]

Damnit guys! Now my wrist is starting to hurt.

[von Murrin]

Aside from gel mousepads, alternative pointing devices, etc. You could try this. Get a height-adjustable chair and move your mouse farther back on your desk. Ideally, with the two in combination, your fore-arm should be resting on the desk and at a right angle to your body with no back or shoulder strain to compensate. This, with a gel mousepad, should have you CMing in comfort.

Nathanael

[JunoReactor]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Soddball:

I've got a Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer and I don't end up with wrist pains since I bought it. Each to their own, though.<hr></blockquote>

Same here.. the thing is a bit oversized, which helps to keep your wrist elevated. Its usually the middle of my forearms that makes contact with the desk, which helps a lot.

[PiggDogg]

Tom,

With your dissortation, you must be a doctor. L0l.

ICM 1947,

You were born in 1947? Damn, you are some old. You must be 54 years old. Some ancientd. I was born in 1948, so I'm 'NOT' as old as you.

By the way, you may want to support your whole forearm with a cushion with a stiff board under the cushion. I cannot use a mouse without my forearm fully supported. It must be old age.

Cheers, Richard :cool: :cool:

[gredeker]

I started having trouble a few years ago in my right hand, as I: a) have a clerical job with lots of typing, play electric bass (an ergonomic nightmare), and c) play a fair bit of computer games.

I read in an ergonomics article (sorry, can't remember the reference) that mouse use is one of the worst things you can do in terms of exacerbating carpal-tunnel injuries.

Solution: Change mousing hands. I now use the mouse left-handed, even though I'm a right hander. I can't stop writing or typing with my right hand, or playing bass (imagine a tune with driving eighths and you can imagine what kind of stress that imposes) but I could even things out by switching my mouse use. Things got better, and I haven't had a problem for the last year and a half. It does take a month or two until your proficiency builds up, but now I'm "mouse ambidextrous".

I'd also second the recommendation to get a good gel mouse pad - it's also helped a lot.

[CMplayer]

When I was playing CM a lot, I was getting strange pains in my left elbow, but I wouldn't feel them until I was lying in bed trying to fall asleep. I knew from experience how to protect my mouse arm, but didn't think about the fact that I was sitting for hours on end supporting my head with my chin in my left hand, and my left elbow on the hardwood table. It felt about as if the funnybone had gotten wedged into that nervy space under it.

And my point was...err...well...maybe go out at get some more exercise or something. I dunno...

[ 12-01-2001: Message edited by: CMplayer ]</p>

[WWB]

I say track ball all the way. You avoid all the wrist & elbow movement that mousing creates. The only drawback is those things get real dirty real fast.

WWB

[Louie the Toad]

Dear Icm1947.

Hey, that is my year too !

A few days ago on 11/25 I bought a Logitech Marble Mouse USB. Prior to that I had a Logitech Trackman Vista (has a marble too). I switched because the Trackman was beginning to wear out, becoming less responsive, required cleaning more and more often AND I felt was causing stiffness in my hand.

Well the Marble Mouse USB has NOT lived up to my expectations. Unless it is a question of getting used to it, I think it is causing increased stiffness in my hand. My wife has complained about her hand as well. What I did was to put a "pad" just behind the mouse which gives my wrist more support and raises it to a more comfortable position with relation to the mouse. The "pad" is one of those zippered cases that often contain personal items like nail clippers, small scissors, etc. About 4"x6"x1" .

So far this has helped some.

Another Idea is one of those voice operated command systems. I have Game Commander 2 but have used it mostly for Panzer Commander. (which of course I haven't played in almost a year due to CM ) I tried it for only a bit for CM so I cant give a fair recommendation. Others on the forum do use this I believe. Maybe they will respond. You still have to use the mouse, but not for every order. The drawback is that you are talking to your computer. Of course we already do that. ("shoot, damn it shoot!") (from the other room: "Are you yelling at that game again?")

good old Toad

[lcm1947]

Thanks everyone for the advise and help I really do appreciate it. It seems that the pad will be the first thing I try ( least expensive ) plus just bought one earlier today, but if that doesn't work I'll just stop playing CM. No just kidding about that, but if that doens't work I'll try something else. Oh and by the way Pigg Dog - old fart yourself I'm only 53 years old, well at least for another 16 days. Again thanks to all and the mouse pad does seem to be helping already but think I will also take breaks every hour and do some exercises. No way can I let this stop me from playing the game.

[russellmz]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by lcm1947:

Thanks everyone for the advise and help I really do appreciate it. It seems that the pad will be the first thing I try ( least expensive ) plus just bought one earlier today, but if that doesn't work I'll just stop playing CM. No just kidding about that, but if that doens't work I'll try something else. Oh and by the way Pigg Dog - old fart yourself I'm only 53 years old, well at least for another 16 days. Again thanks to all and the mouse pad does seem to be helping already but think I will also take breaks every hour and do some exercises. No way can I let this stop me from playing the game.<hr></blockquote>

yeah, i use the left hand even tho im right handed too. even out the damage and you should be fine.

[Phantom Captain]

the irony here is just killing me. playing a war game all about death and destruction and complaining about wrist pains! what soldiers we would make! please, no one take this the wrong way, i realize cts is a serious issue but you have to admit it's kinda funny.

[Lars]

People commonly make the mistake that their hardware is to blame. It’s not necessarily the case. As a draftsman for 20 years here is what works:

1. Check that your computer table is the right height. Very important. You should be able to rest your whole arm on the table. A CAD station is best. You can build one for 30 bucks.

2. A comfy chair. Height adjustable and reclinable. Buy a good one, it’s your butt.

3. Large clear monitor. Keeps you from leaning forward and squinting to see what’s going on. Dim the lights too, causes eyestrain. Now you can justifiy that 22” monitor, guys.

After that just about any input device works fine. A bowling type brace from the doc will help until the pain goes away after about a month.

[markshot]

You could use something like Game Commander (voice commands) to issue all non-mouse commands. It would reduce typing.

[Iron Chef Sakai]

i have a question about the eye strain part, my eyes are fine, and i have a 19" sony monitor, but it better to play with dim lights, or no lights at all? just wondering.

[Lars]

As long as there is no glare on the screen you should be good.

Most CAD shops are kept very dimly lit. A small lamp works well. Just enough to read by.

[gunnergoz]

Just to add my vote: I'm 53 y.o. and have used a Kensington Expert Mouse track ball exclusively for the past 5 or 7 years. Wouldn't do without it. Yes, I have to clean it periodically and yes. I still have to watch my ergometrics for extended keyboard sessions, but I've managed to avoid any lasting damage to date (knock wood!). I did have a near-miss with a sore forearm last year but that was my own fault for not minding my body positions and not taking breaks.

Hope this helps.

BTW I do have a MS Intellimouse connected for occasional use of the wheel, which I wish was integrated into the Kensington ball...sigh...maybe someday?