ON map Artillery

[kb6583]

I'm referring specifically to  a scenario that I'm playing as the Germans where roughly six Wespes are on the map. I have two observers as well, but along with all of the leaders on the map, I can't figure out how I access them for indirect artillery support. So how do I do this? 

[thilio]

Did the Wespes appear in the artillery panel with an access for the observers ?

[Centurian52]

I've noticed that in CMFI on-map US M7 Priests are generally not available for FOs to call in for indirect fire. Perhaps Wespes in CMBN have a similar issue? I don't know if there's a reason for this or if it's a bug. Perhaps @BFCElvis might know the answer?

I can see this being intentional. It used to be the case that CM maps were always so small that there wouldn't be any point in trying to use on-map SP artillery for indirect fire anyway. There simply wouldn't be enough room for the shot's trajectory to arc and get over all the obstacles that would inevitably be in the way of the target. So if you had any on-map SP artillery, there may have been an assumption that you would always use it in a direct-fire role. But as the game has evolved and maps have gotten larger there are now instances where it may very well be practical to call in on-map SP artillery as indirect fire.

[Jim1954]

What scenario are you referring to?

6 hours ago, kb6583 said:

I'm referring specifically to  a scenario that I'm playing as the Germans where roughly six Wespes are on the map. I have two observers as well, but along with all of the leaders on the map, I can't figure out how I access them for indirect artillery support. So how do I do this? 

 

[Vanir Ausf B]

On-map self propelled guns and howitzers are not allowed indirect fire in CM. IIRC the rationale is that ranges for on-map fire would typically be too short for their trajectory to hit.

[Warts 'n' all]

9 hours ago, kb6583 said:

I'm referring specifically to  a scenario that I'm playing as the Germans where roughly six Wespes are on the map. I have two observers as well, but along with all of the leaders on the map, I can't figure out how I access them for indirect artillery support. So how do I do this? 

What scenario are you playing? 

[PEB14]

Indirect fire with on map assets is really a mess. The only reliable way I ever managed to use it is to have the observer at voice distance of the guns (generally mortars).

I've played several times with German, on-map 81 mm mortars, and I've never been able to use them in indirect fire mode. They usually come with a battery HQ (or whatever is is called) with no radio; keeping it close to the mortars is not enough to call their fire from any other HQ. I've also tried to keep the next HQ (in rank), with a radio, close to the gun (an the battery HQ), but I've not been able to call these mortars with another radio equipped HQ either.

While using off board artillery is very simple, I don't understand why on-board artillery is so difficult to activate.

[Sgt Joch]

As pointed out above, assets like the Wespe or the Priest can only be used in a direct fire mode if they are an on-map asset. You can only use them in an indirect fire mode if they were purchased as an off map artillery asset. 

On the other issue, when you want to issue an order to a on-map mortar, you need to have a radio and C2 link from the spotter to the mortar. There is an exception as explained in the CM Engine Manual 4.0 (page 77):

Quote

Exception: On-map support assets including mortars and howitzers can fire indirect even if they are out of command & control and lack a radio, provided that either the spotter is within 50m or the support asset is next to a vehicle equipped with a radio.

 

[Ultradave]

Yes, for artillery (but not mortars), if your artillery assets are on the map, they are there for direct fire support, and can be really effective at that. For indirect fire, the minimum range possible would exceed the map length in almost all cases.

Dave

[thilio]

I remember having played CMFB campaign "the road to Bastogne".

In mission 3 you have Grille on map that you can use for indirect fire support.

[Erwin]

6 hours ago, thilio said:

In mission 3 you have Grille on map that you can use for indirect fire support.

It's possible Grilles can elevate their guns high enough to have a shorter range - like a mortar?

[Sgt Joch]

No, you are mistaken, as noted above, a unit like a Wespe is only available for indirect fire, i.e. artillery, if it is a off map artillery asset. It is easy to verify if you setup a test scenario.

I also checked out the 3rd  mission of the German CMFB campaign, I presume this is the "Kampfgruppe Peiper" campaign? but there are no Wespes in that one.

[thilio]

55 minutes ago, Sgt Joch said:

No, you are mistaken, as noted above, a unit like a Wespe is only available for indirect fire, i.e. artillery, if it is a off map artillery asset. It is easy to verify if you setup a test scenario.

I also checked out the 3rd  mission of the German CMFB campaign, I presume this is the "Kampfgruppe Peiper" campaign? but there are no Wespes in that one.

It's not "Kampfgruppe Peiper" but "the road to Bastogne".

Maybe it's not possible with Wespes or Priests but it's possible with Grilles.

[thilio]

[Warts 'n' all]

For those not familiar with it, "The Road to Bastogne" is available from the few good men website.

[Erwin]

FWIW CMFB's "Mission to Maas "also has Grilles.  

[Sgt Joch]

sorry, I thought we were talking about Wespe. Yes, Grille works as well as some other infantry guns. 

[Ultradave]

On 4/5/2024 at 12:28 PM, Ultradave said:

Yes, for artillery (but not mortars), if your artillery assets are on the map, they are there for direct fire support, and can be really effective at that. For indirect fire, the minimum range possible would exceed the map length in almost all cases.

Dave

I forgot one instance. Airborne unit's 75mm PAK howitzers can indirect fire from on-map. Probably the minimum range is so short that it falls within most maps. 

Dave

[Anthony P.]

I believe that German light infantry guns can also perform indirect fire missions on-map.

[Warts 'n' all]

On 4/7/2024 at 8:08 PM, Anthony P. said:

I believe that German light infantry guns can also perform indirect fire missions on-map.

They can indeed. Although care does need to be taken when using them, as their low trajectory shells do sometimes hit trees, rather than their intended target.