Israel War Thread

[Splinty]

2 hours ago, BornGinger said:

I just watched CBS News on YouTube. So far 15 journalists have been killed in Gaza. It's a feather in the hat for sionist nazi Israel to be among the states that has killed most journalists.

Israel tells people in north Gaza to go south just to do airstrikes in a residential area in the south. How many innocent Palestinians have been murdered by Israel now? Is it 3000 or more?

But that's ok. Sionist jews only have to start talking about the myth of six million dead jews in WW2 and their latest murdering rampage is going to be forgiven by UN and USA.

Did you just call Jews Nazis? 

[Lethaface]

13 minutes ago, Splinty said:

Did you just call Jews Nazis? 

Not that I concur with that statement but you liked a post which called Palestinians rabid dogs who need to be shot.

[acrashb]

52 minutes ago, Seedorf81 said:

But airstrike seems pretty certain, so far.

Israel says it was a Hamas rocket that fell short, as 30-40% do, so I'm told.  As they are somewhat home made, it's a credible number.

So maybe best to reserve judgement for a bit.

14 minutes ago, Splinty said:

Did you just call Jews Nazis? 

Hi did.  He also noted the "... myth of six million dead jews in WW2 ...."  So, not a serious person.  Blocked him some time ago.

[Lethaface]

1 minute ago, acrashb said:

Israel says it was a Hamas rocket that fell short, as 30-40% do, so I'm told.  As they are somewhat home made, it's a credible number.

So maybe best to reserve judgement for a bit.

 

That video is said to be an old video, although I agree that it is best to reserve judgement for a bit.

[Seedorf81]

37 minutes ago, Lethaface said:

The explosion doesn't look like an ammo storage hit. In that case the whole hospital would have been gone.

Depends on the amount of explosives, of course. Hamas has been known for storing ammo and weapons in places full of civilians, and a relative small amount of stored rockets could have exacerbate the possible Israeli bomb-detonation.

Doesn't really matter what blew up, even if it was Hamas-stuff, because this horrible death-toll could be a game-changer in the sense that "the Arabic/Muslim"-world is going to retaliate now. Somewhere, somehow.

And we probably all thought that the Ukraine-war was the biggest threat to world-peace..

 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Seedorf81

[Carolus]

 

Israel seems to have bipartisan backing in the US.

[Seedorf81]

12 minutes ago, Lethaface said:

That video is said to be an old video, although I agree that it is best to reserve judgement for a bit.

Yeah, you're right. Neither side is very honest.

[Lethaface]

7 minutes ago, Seedorf81 said:

Depends on the amount of explosives, of course. Hamas has been known for storing ammo and weapons in places full of civilians, and a relative small amount of stored rockets could have exacerbate the possible Israeli bomb-detonation.

Doesn't really matter what blew up, even if it was Hamas-stuff, because this horrible death-toll could be a game-changer in the sense that "the Arabic/Muslim"-world is going to retaliate now. Somewhere, somehow.

And we probably all thought that the Ukraine-war was the biggest threat to world-peace..

 

Agreed. First and foremost this is a humanitarian disaster, I got send a video of aftermath but didn't want to watch it.
Edit: to be fully clear, same goes for any civilian casualties on any side. Israeli, Palestinian, Jew, Muslim, whatever; we are all human.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Lethaface

[Splinty]

27 minutes ago, Lethaface said:

Not that I concur with that statement but you liked a post which called Palestinians rabid dogs who need to be shot.

That particular like was to the killing terrorists part of the post. As an Iraq vet I have a deep hatred of terrorists and terrorism. I've seen and experienced first hand the chaos and death they cause.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Splinty
Can't spell

[Seedorf81]

9 minutes ago, Lethaface said:

Agreed. First and foremost this is a humanitarian disaster, I got send a video of aftermath but didn't want to watch it.

I've seen nasty things in my life, and I consider myself to be as "neutral" as one possibly can be. But the live-footage of the very young kids with horrific wounds impacted even my "neutrality". And so I expect that the average "Arab/Muslim"-viewer gets infuriated beyond limits. And even if there were solid proof that the deaths were a direct result from a Hamas-rocket launch gone wrong, they blame the Israeli's anyway.

Both parties will show their real hate, compromises are gone.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Seedorf81

[Lethaface]

46 minutes ago, Splinty said:

That particular like was to the killing terrorists part of the post. As an Iraq vet I have a deep hatred of terrorists and terrorism. I've seen and experienced first hand the chaos and death they cause.

I can understand, but I thought the post was rather inhumane. My grandfather has served in the Dutch colonial war for Indonesia and has probably killed several hundreds of Indonesian 'rampokkers' or rather armed mobs / militia's who were also terrorizing the local populace. He was there 4 years on daily patrols and 'cleansing' operations (that's what they were called at the time, not ordered against the populace to be clear). I recently did a deep dive into his experiences.
In the end my personal opinion is that both wars were (politically) unjust, but that doesn't mean the soldiers involved are or were 'guilty' by definition. They were mostly trying to do the right thing / their assignment, although of course not everything was 'shining'.

FWIW I don't want to put anything in your mouth with regards to the justification of killing of Palestinians who just try to live their life, given the circumstances they were born in. But I had to refrain myself reacting to that post more harshly. I thought it was, inhumane to put it mildly.

I respect soldiers who do their duty.

Edit: I also respect the fact you replied, we might not agree on everything but that in itself is not necessarily something bad.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Lethaface

[keas66]

Gets a bit tricky doesn't it when the IAF starts bombing hospitals    . I see the IDF is still lingering on the start line - I imagine they know whats going to happen to a lot of them when they go in . Like I said  a week ago - this is going to be a bloodbath for both sides  and in the end will  solve nothing . Now is the time for diplomacy . Too many dead on both sides at this point .

Edited October 17, 2023 by keas66

[acrashb]

2 minutes ago, keas66 said:

Gets a bit tricky doesn't it when the IAF starts bombing hospitals  

That's unconfirmed as of yet.

[dan/california]

39 minutes ago, acrashb said:

Israel says it was a Hamas rocket that fell short, as 30-40% do, so I'm told.  As they are somewhat home made, it's a credible number.

So maybe best to reserve judgement for a bit.

Hi did.  He also noted the "... myth of six million dead jews in WW2 ...."  So, not a serious person.  Blocked him some time ago.

Israel hitting the Hospital with Biden literally due to visit tomorrow would make less than no sense. A Palestinian rocket either gone wrong, or intentionally fired at the hospital is entirely believable. More to the point than believability is that there will be multiple drone feeds, satellite data, radar, and who knows what else. Given the U.s. carrier group in the area some of those assets are probably U.S. instead of Israeli. They Israelis are not going to lie to Biden's face about this when he probably has independent data. It would just be dumb. And some of that data will be public shortly is my guess. Iron Dome radar probably has the exact track.

[Lethaface]

1 minute ago, dan/california said:

Israel hitting the Hospital with Biden literally due to visit tomorrow would make less than no sense. A Palestinian rocket either gone wrong, or intentionally fired at the hospital is entirely believable. More to the point than believability is that there will be multiple drone feeds, satellite data, radar, and who knows what else. Given the U.s. carrier group in the area some of those assets are probably U.S. instead of Israeli. They Israelis are not going to lie to Biden's face about this when he probably has independent data. It would just be dumb. And some of that data will be public shortly is my guess. Iron Dome radar probably has the exact track.

Not everything makes sense, I don't agree with the preoccupation that it must be Palestinians or that the Israeli regime won't lie. It would indeed be dumb, but believing that no other explanation could exist is just plain naive imo. Especially given the history of this conflict. It wouldn't be the first time.

[acrashb]

2 minutes ago, dan/california said:

And some of that data will be public shortly is my guess. 

Yes.

The damage was severe, but Hamas does store munitions in hospitals and similar locations (schools, mosques).

But I don't know - we'll see what the Americans say once they've analyzed intel.  Not that anyone will be swayed (if the determination is Hamas or at least not Israel), the narrative has already taken hold.

[cesmonkey]

52 minutes ago, acrashb said:

Israel says it was a Hamas rocket that fell short, as 30-40% do, so I'm told.  As they are somewhat home made, it's a credible number.

So maybe best to reserve judgement for a bit.

Hi did.  He also noted the "... myth of six million dead jews in WW2 ...."  So, not a serious person.  Blocked him some time ago.

 

[keas66]

Pardon my disbelief that the Israelis  are not capable of lying when it suits them . They have done it plenty of times before .

I'm also  wondering whether it is actually realistic that a single Hamas originated rocket could cause that level of destruction . They don't cause any where near that level of destruction when they hit  targets inside Israel . Seems more like a bomb sized event . I am guessing the truth is going to be very hard to find out now and will only come out  once things have calmed down ( if even then )  . It's to both sides advantage to blame the other side at this point .

[Lethaface]

43 minutes ago, Seedorf81 said:

I've seen nasty things in my life, and I consider myself to be as "neutral" as one possibly can be. But the live-footage of the very young kids with horrific wounds impacted even my "neutrality". And so I expect that the average "Arab/Muslim"-viewer gets infuriated beyond limits. And even if there were solid proof that the deaths were a direct result from a Hamas-rocket launch gone wrong, they blame the Israeli's anyway.

Both parties will show their real hate, compromises are gone.

My soul has also been scratched enough so no desire to watch that footage in detail. And indeed, whomever was behind this the blame has probably been cast already in the hearts and minds of those involved.

[panzermartin]

It will be very hard to convince the world that this was a Hamas rocket I'm afraid. River not going back. Israel's operation is already backfiring badly, the Arab world is in turmoil. And probably Europe will pay a heavy price again with the absolute vocal support to Israel while at the same time harbouring millions of Muslims (what were they thinking?) 

[Ultradave]

https://wapo.st/3M5cxQv

You should be able to read this. I have a subscription and can gift 10 articles a month. There is a running update so you should be able to come back to this posting, click on it, and see newer updates. If you scroll on down a fair bit, there is a very short video of the rocket/missile hit, said to be verified by WaPo. Sounds like the zzzipp of a rocket (of some kind) passing close by the video taker, and then hitting. The article lists chronologically the conflicting claims and news updates.

Take it for what it's worth. Doesn't prove anything, but *to me* it sounds like a rocket, and not an air to ground missile with a large warhead. Could be a Hamas rocket, could be an aircraft fired rocket. Whoever fired it, the rocket might have hit something explosive.

I agree it would be supremely stupid to do something like this right before Pres. Biden gets there. Doesn't mean mistakes or misfires on either side don't happen. We have enough evidence of that from Iraq and Afghanistan.

Dave

[acrashb]

28 minutes ago, keas66 said:

I'm also  wondering whether it is actually realistic that a single Hamas originated rocket could cause that level of destruction . They don't cause any where near that level of destruction when they hit  targets inside Israel .

Maybe that's because Israeli targets aren't routinely filled with munitions?

Also, Hamas announced (apparently, I don't read Arabic) the use of their biggest rockets moments before the explosion, which the Syrian-made M-302, Khaibar-1, a 302mm device with a 331 lb warhead.

So, big boom.

Or maybe the IAF did it - I don't know, and right now the only people who do are the respective combatants.  It's possible that it was a Hamas rocket but Hamas actually thinks it was IAF.  

As I said, let's wait and see what the American's say.

Edited October 17, 2023 by acrashb

[keas66]

Just now, acrashb said:

Maybe that's because Israeli targets aren't routinely filled with munitions?

Also, Hamas announced (apparently, I don't read Arabic) the use of their biggest rockets moments before the explosion, which the Syrian-made M-302, Khaibar-1, a 302mm device with (again apparently) a 331 lb warhead.

So, big boom.

Or maybe the IAF did it - I don't know, and right now the only people who do are the respective combatants.  It's possible that it was a Hamas rocket but Hamas actually thinks it was IAF.  

As I said, let's wait and see what the American's say.

If that Hospital was  in- fact being used by Hamas to store munitions - I expect the owner /operators of that hospital  would likely be  a little disappointed  with their security/administration staff ?

"The al-Ahli Hospital in Gaza City — where authorities suspect an airstrike killed hundreds of people Tuesday — is owned and operated by the Episcopal Diocese of Jerusalem, said Eileen Spencer, head of the American fundraising arm for the diocese."  ( from the WaPo online story )

[acrashb]

2 minutes ago, keas66 said:

If that Hospital was  in- fact being used by Hamas to store munitions - I expect the owner /operators of that hospital  would likely be  a little disappointed  with their security/administration staff ?

I expect they would and are, just like the UNRWA is quite disappointed that Hamas 'requisitioned' food and fuel from UNRWA's facilities, just recently - UNRWA indicates Hamas stole supplies from its Gaza premises, then walks back claim (msn.com)  I'd walk back the claim too, if it meant keeping my staff alive.

Owned and operated does not mean 'controlled by' - not in Gaza.

[acrashb]

And here's another video, perhaps this time an accurate one.  Hell, let's make it two: