Pacific Theater?

[Modernrocco]

I was wondering why Battlefront hasn't delved into the Pacific theater during World War 2. 

[Ithikial_AU]

Highly unlikely. BF have always focused on the European theatre for their WW2 titles. I believe this is to do with the game engine's over the years, but also a degree of personal preference amongst BF themselves. There's also a lot of variety in tactical engagements and forces available in Europe relative to the Pacific which would be a highly infantry only affair in many cases.

[womble]

1 hour ago, Ithikial_AU said:

degree of personal preference amongst BF themselves

Aye, Steve has said he's simply not interested in the Pacific, I believe. Now, if some competent, reasonable, keen and knowledgeable group were to present a cogent plan for them doing it (in the same sort of model as CW was done by an "outside" group), maybe that lack of interest could be sidestepped. The other "obstacles" would remain, however; I'm not sure it'd be a very fun game, personally.

[SimpleSimon]

I remain unconvinced that a theater of fighting predominantly set by naval objectives and starving island garrisons neutralized and bypassed without a fight will end up being very interesting for very long. 

Like the pace of fighting on Pacific Islands was generally one of two states-skirmishes between patrols, and sieges. The terrain and poor local infrastructure left virtually no avenues for the full combined arms kits to be of much use. Tanks were reduced to supporting roles in the few situations roads were the sight of actual fighting. Infantry maneuvers were frequently done with a preference for as little fighting as possible-since the jungles were far worse than the enemy was. It was seriously normal for infantry regiments to be reduced to battalions by malaria *alone*. 

One interesting exception to this is a campaign most guys seem oddly oblivious too. Japan's invasion and seizure of the Philippine Islands from the Americans in 1941-42. The fighting on Luzon involved close air support, tactical maneuver, and yes even panzer blitzing but so little is spoken of this campaign since the Americans lost. The fighting also did degenerate into a siege once Bataan came under attack-but there's just enough scope for a short CM style campaign in the early part of the campaign there and maybe also Malaya. 

If you want a CM game about the Pacific War you will-unsurprisingly- find few examples. If you want a game about *the way* fighting in the Pacific War happened there are plenty of examples actually. Radio Commander is a good one.

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by SimpleSimon

[Artkin]

Honestly you can just make islands yourself. Paint water around a map. You can even add shacks standing on 4 legs by destroying the first floor of houses. 

[Vinnart]

I believe there was someone who did, or ls working on a Vietnam War mod, so there is that. As far as anything in a near future I doubt we would see anything in a Pacific theater. Will BF ever do Pacific? I don't think I ever heard Steve say never, so who knows, perhaps someday if and when he thinks it's the right time.

[Artkin]

[Vacillator]

Nice work.  Now where are those Japanese troops ?

[Artkin]

11 minutes ago, Vacillator said:

Nice work.  Now where are those Japanese troops ?

They definitely aren't Japanese, but I chose the closest ones to them... Pun intended!

I was trying to get better screens but I was getting owned

[Vacillator]

Forgive me I can't quite make them out - Commonwealth of some sort?

[Artkin]

They are Indians. I figured they were obscure enough to fit the bill, and their helmets are kind of similar. Also they had a top loading light machine gun too I think

 

Edited August 18, 2022 by Artkin

[Vacillator]

Okay, it's a game so no complaints from me.  Is it a worthwhile battle?  If so, can I try it ?  Doesn't have to be PBEM LOL...

[Artkin]

1 hour ago, Vacillator said:

Okay, it's a game so no complaints from me.  Is it a worthwhile battle?  If so, can I try it ?  Doesn't have to be PBEM LOL...

Of course you may! It's something, lol. Pick US and try to enjoy the suffering

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0x87x7t6ovwf5p1/AADOFQT7BS2OQW-ea5pqEBn-a?dl=0

 

[Artkin]

I'm open for a PBEM on it too if you want.

[Vacillator]

2 hours ago, Artkin said:

I'm open for a PBEM on it too if you want.

Thanks my friend, I'll try it solo first I think as I don't want another PBEM defeat just yet .

EDIT:  Got it and loads up fine (except for the description LOL).  Jeezy louisy, now to head inland...

Edited August 18, 2022 by Vacillator

[JM Stuff]

18 hours ago, Vacillator said:

Nice work.  Now where are those Japanese troops ?

in the past @LongLeftFlankWas making a good approach of Pacific theater Japanese included...taking on the lupe with light modifications from @Aquila-SmartWargames

This one was created for CMBN but I think with a little attention and good hands it will be possible to rename some bmp's to be converted from BN to FI.

I take opportunity to say thanks to @Artkin to let us live again this moment.

Hope to see more help of you guy's me included to help them of this theatre...

 

JM

 

 

[Artkin]

Honestly the mapping to me is just circling a pre-existing map with water.

Too bad we can't convert maps to FI, because some of the CMBN MG maps would work really well.

I assume the Japanese pack was being created before R2V? The factions included with R2V would be perfect for the Japanese. Also the french ft-17 tank would work sort of nicely as some Japanese armor if reskinned.

I am all game for mapping (Off pre-existing works), scenario design, maybe TOE, and certainly PBEMS.

It's unfortunate CMFI doesn't like large maps, it is probably the 2nd or 3rd slowest title (excluding CM:A). It would be pretty cool to do a large map like Iwo Jima, they even have one in Armored Brigade, to put it in perspective.

Thank you Vacillator and JM! Let's battle now eh?

[Artkin]

That scenario I made is really crude, could use a ton of airpower.

[LongLeftFlank]

CMBN Pacific: Makin Atoll

 

I am not in a position to do anything CM related, beyond the occasional drive by on the Ukraine thread. But good luck to anyone wanting to pursue a PT project.

I personally find PTO can be satisfyingly gamed in CM.

[Artkin]

Nice stuff, I wonder if it would work in cmfi given its old creation date

[SimpleSimon]

If you want "Japanese Troops" it's literally as simple as setting scenarios with unsupported light infantry with maybe 2-3 light machine guns between one hundred riflemen, the occasional light mortar, and in defense a pair of HMGs. Troops sent to the Pacific usually had nothing like their assigned equipment allotments-there appears to have been very little in the way of assigned equipment tables at all in the Japanese Army. Forces in China were generally better organized than the ones in the Pacific to be fair-but the near total lack of infrastructure in that country could make it just as hard often to justify the presence of heavy equipment that couldn't be brought up ever. Again-the one exception to this seems to have been airplanes. 

Much of this is due to the peculiar manner in which Japanese troop detachments "coalesced" around charismatic and individualistic commanders who seem to have generally just grabbed whatever troops and equipment were available and carried out attacks on their own initiative. Superiors were then usually obliged to support such actions in the name of avoiding humiliation for poor discipline. There are a ridiculous number of examples all over CBI and the Pacific of Japanese Troop detachments marching off to attack or bypass enemy positions without formal orders to do so and at least at the start of the war this sort of bravado usually paid off against enemy troops who were badly led. Allied Commanders in particular invited their own destruction all the time by simply assuming Japanese forces wouldn't be able to bypass strongpoints by using the jungles to just outflank them-since Allied Commanders would never do that. It's how the British lost Malaya so fast. The Americans had minimized their own vulnerabilities to such tactics at Bataan-but not because they knew how the Japanese were conducting their attacks, more because the objective was to thwart efforts to use the Port at Manila for as long as possible by protecting Corregidor. 

Edited August 22, 2022 by SimpleSimon

[Holdit]

The idea that the war against the Japanes was all about island-hopping strike me as odd. Advanced Squad Leader did two modules covering the Pacific War: Code of Bushido, and Gung Ho!. The first added the Japanese and scenarios in which they fight US army and Commonwealth troops, the second adds US Marines and the Chinese. The scenarios cover:

Burma (4), The Phillipihnes (3), Peleliu- inland (1), Bougainville - inland (1) & beach assault (1), Guam - beach assault (1), Manchuria (2), New Guinea (2), Leyte - inland (1)

That's two beach assaults out of 16 scenarios. (12.5%) .

 

[Bulletpoint]

I think the Pacific would be the perfect match for the CM engine. Slowly picking apart fanatic Japanese defences, sometimes boosted with the occasional tank or bunker, should play out a lot like slowly picking apart stubborn German defences.

[landser]

Until Combat Mission adds strategic or operational layers I think the 'island hopping' nature of the Pacific war objections fail. From a tactical viewpoint I think it would work fine.

[Anders_1970]

I agree that the Pacific Theater is not really suited to this game engine. The Korean War 1950-51, however, would be interesting.