Erwin Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 Exciting... thanks LS!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM Stuff Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said: anyway most players are used to it. They can still be blown up by breach teams - do they carry more explosive than a 301mm nebelwerfer shell could deliver - somehow doubt it, but hey ho ... Also your Sherman Rhinos can still batter their way through. Totally right but will be more efficient if you can blow up by distance, and don't need to use and eventually loose, some engeners under the enemi fire to blowing it up ! Edited October 9, 2021 by JM Stuff 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky_Strike Posted October 10, 2021 Author Share Posted October 10, 2021 3 hours ago, JM Stuff said: Totally right but will be more efficient if you can blow up by distance, and don't need to use and eventually loose, some engeners under the enemi fire to blowing it up ! I agree, but sadly this isn't very easy, and definitely not an effiecient way to breach bocage. I did a small test map targeting a road with bocage along it and a couple of adjacent fields. I set up two full battery barrages, one from a 30cm nebelwerfer battery the other from a 170mm cannon battery. They were running concurrently and, despite many direct hits, still only managed to knock out about 3 sections of bocage whilst turning the rest of the landscape into an impassible moonscape. Not really very realistic. Bocage was no doubt difficult to destroy in real life, but a 30cm nebelwerfer shell carried something like 45kg of explosive whereas the average satchel charge was only about 5kg. I know all explosives are not equal but I do think the modelling is just wrong here. Direct hits from a few nebelwerfer rockets would make a mess of most things. But for now the Rhinos and engineers are the only sure way to get through bocage. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky_Strike Posted October 10, 2021 Author Share Posted October 10, 2021 5 hours ago, Erwin said: Exciting... thanks LS!! Thanks Erwin, I'm glad you think so. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMac Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 As a side note, and what I don’t find realistic, is having a unit with satchel charges moving up to a hedgerow and destroying a section all in same turn...In RL Engineers would have to move up and prepare the detonation charges (making holes for charges, etc) taking several minutes to do so. This is why I think this along with digging foxholes, getting ammo at ammo dumps, etc, ere better suited for Campaigns, Operations and not for your typical CM Scenario. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM Stuff Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 14 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said: I agree, but sadly this isn't very easy, and definitely not an effiecient way to breach bocage. I did a small test map targeting a road with bocage along it and a couple of adjacent fields. I set up two full battery barrages, one from a 30cm nebelwerfer battery the other from a 170mm cannon battery. They were running concurrently and, despite many direct hits, still only managed to knock out about 3 sections of bocage whilst turning the rest of the landscape into an impassible moonscape. Not really very realistic. Bocage was no doubt difficult to destroy in real life, but a 30cm nebelwerfer shell carried something like 45kg of explosive whereas the average satchel charge was only about 5kg. I know all explosives are not equal but I do think the modelling is just wrong here. Direct hits from a few nebelwerfer rockets would make a mess of most things. But for now the Rhinos and engineers are the only sure way to get through bocage. this is what I mean when I said is not realistic to see that a monster shells cannot destroy a part of the bushes or bocage but a simple engineers section yes... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM Stuff Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 15 minutes ago, JoMac said: As a side note, and what I don’t find realistic, is having a unit with satchel charges moving up to a hedgerow and destroying a section all in same turn...In RL Engineers would have to move up and prepare the detonation charges (making holes for charges, etc) taking several minutes to do so. This is why I think this along with digging foxholes, getting ammo at ammo dumps, etc, ere better suited for Campaigns, Operations and not for your typical CM Scenario. Also right but imagine, players have to wait more minutes... to have a part of bocage blowing up, ...a stress more, but agree more realistic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky_Strike Posted October 10, 2021 Author Share Posted October 10, 2021 2 hours ago, JoMac said: As a side note, and what I don’t find realistic, is having a unit with satchel charges moving up to a hedgerow and destroying a section all in same turn...In RL Engineers would have to move up and prepare the detonation charges (making holes for charges, etc) taking several minutes to do so. This is why I think this along with digging foxholes, getting ammo at ammo dumps, etc, ere better suited for Campaigns, Operations and not for your typical CM Scenario. Yes, the modelling of this is not very well done and could do with revisiting. IMHO if an engineer were to just chuck a couple of satchel charges into a section of bocage the likelihood is a lot of smoke and debris but not much of a passable hole. As you rightly point out they would have been more liable to at least dig a hole to pack with explosives, taking a few minutes, but honestly digging through the kind of tangle of roots that are under hedges is an absolute nightmare, factor in a couple of MG42s blazing away at you as well ... I'd reckon a minimum of 10 minutes to make it passable to vehicles. 2 hours ago, JM Stuff said: this is what I mean when I said is not realistic to see that a monster shells cannot destroy a part of the bushes or bocage but a simple engineers section yes... 2 hours ago, JM Stuff said: Also right but imagine, players have to wait more minutes... to have a part of bocage blowing up, ...a stress more, but agree more realistic. Yeah, I think you are right JM, it's really been modelled for the sake of the game rather than what reality is like, which is, to my mind, at odds with the whole ethos of CM. Anyway we should NOT be talking about blowin' up my lovely bocage! Topiary - maybe, but no more talk of satchel charges please. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benpark Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 Looks fantastic. Did you assign additional textures to the models in Bender? One of the problems with winterizing trees is the way the branches work in the stock versions - the snow effect has to be overall, or it gets randomized. Some snow might appear on the top of the branch, some might be on the bottom, defying gravity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky_Strike Posted October 10, 2021 Author Share Posted October 10, 2021 7 minutes ago, benpark said: Looks fantastic. Did you assign additional textures to the models in Bender? One of the problems with winterizing trees is the way the branches work in the stock versions - the snow effect has to be overall, or it gets randomized. Some snow might appear on the top of the branch, some might be on the bottom, defying gravity. Thanks Ben, much appreciated. Yes I have added the extra textures in Blender specifically for the ash sapling and brush undergrowth. The way the bocage was originally constructed actually allows for a lot of flexibility with the extras. I have found so long as I keep to the general naming hierarchy then I can add extra sub objects/meshes. And there doesn't seem to be a need to use the original metadata that is imported with the original model's mdr. I guess that the metadata is pretty generic for these models - transparency, shadows etc always seem the same across all the models other than the 1-bit or 8-bit alpha used in the textures dependent on model category. Incidentally do you know why the bocage has 1-bit alpha channels whereas trees etc have the 8-bit greyscale alphas? Was it done originally to save on processing? I have tried a few winter trees and may have a partial solution for gravity defying snow cover. Some deciduous trees can just have their main branches with snow modelled onto their upper sides, those that lose their smaller twigs with their leaves, like ash. For coniferous trees and those deciduous trees that hang onto their finer twigs I maybe able to use the rotation controls in the hair particle system I'm using for leaf branch distribution in Blender. I think the leaf/twig branch models are mostly, if not all, distributed facing the same way up/down, or at least that might be possible using some of the particle system rotation and phase controls. So the snow could then appear on upper surfaces. PAUSES ... deep in thought - Hmm, just had a thought about the face/backside models for the leaf branches of course which have to be included - for anyone following this who is not aware ... take a close look at a leaf branch when next in game, what you will see is that the branch is actually composed of two identical textures sandwiched together - a front and backside. The game uses these to render, unsurprisingly, the front and back faces of the leaf branches, this is also the case for many other textures. Without the back face the textures look very thin when viewed from behind, in some cases textures actually disappear from view when seen from behind without the back face. Resuming normal service - I wonder if we can have a backside texture and a frontside texture? There's a thought - may have to distract myself AGAIN! Arrrrghhghghgh it's never-ending! Thanks Ben! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benpark Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 27 minutes ago, Lucky_Strike said: Incidentally do you know why the bocage has 1-bit alpha channels whereas trees etc have the 8-bit greyscale alphas? Was it done originally to save on processing? Not sure about that - I'd imagine your guess could be the closest to their original planning/reasoning. They did a pretty good job of anticipating hardware trends, but processor/GPU savings are always a balancing act for anyone that makes the computer-games. 31 minutes ago, Lucky_Strike said: it's never-ending! Too true. One experiment always seems to lead to another. There are so many adaptable things with this engine that can be tinkered with. Games within games to play with. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky_Strike Posted October 11, 2021 Author Share Posted October 11, 2021 4 hours ago, benpark said: Not sure about that - I'd imagine your guess could be the closest to their original planning/reasoning. They did a pretty good job of anticipating hardware trends, but processor/GPU savings are always a balancing act for anyone that makes the computer-games. Very true. In a lot of respects we are very lucky that the demands of CM are quite modest by modern standards, no RTX 3090 required - the ability to play on relatively light-weight systems is sometimes a blessing despite all our grumbling about lack of optimisation etc. 4 hours ago, benpark said: Too true. One experiment always seems to lead to another. There are so many adaptable things with this engine that can be tinkered with. Games within games to play with. Hehe. So off he went to look at his Christmas trees again. Managed to get snow on the front face and no snow on the back face of my leaf branches, but short of sticking each one individually to the tree the right way up I haven't yet found an easy way to make them work how I'd like. Still does at least give me some food for thought. Now back to playing in the bocage ... or should that be with the bocage ... as you say games within games 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 On 10/10/2021 at 8:45 PM, benpark said: Games within games to play with. Amen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rake Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 This just keeps getting better and better... sure would be nice to see BF add a few more tree slots to each game.. Fantastic stuff, LS! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM Stuff Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 On 10/11/2021 at 2:03 AM, Lucky_Strike said: Hehe. So off e went to look at his Christmas trees again. Managed to get snow on the front face and no snow on the back face of my leaf branches, but short of sticking each one individually to the tree the right way up I haven't yet found an easy way to make them work how I'd like. Still does at least give me some food for thought. Now back to playing in the bocage ... or should that be with the bocage ... as you say games within games Berlin Blablabla Im Namen blablabla... Hey @Lucky_Strike "we" will need "soon" some news foliages for the autumn camos guns and vehicles, this is a demand of the OKW for the proud German soldier, so... "So, los an die Arbeit schnell ! "Stamp real and conforme" anonyme or unreadable signature !! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky_Strike Posted November 7, 2021 Author Share Posted November 7, 2021 9 hours ago, Rake said: This just keeps getting better and better... sure would be nice to see BF add a few more tree slots to each game.. Fantastic stuff, LS! Thanks Rake. I would really like to see BN, FB and FI have a few extra slots so that all the WW2 games have a full eight tree types each like RT. Pretty sure it wouldn't impact adversely on existing maps. The extras would only get used in new maps. I only make maps to test stuff so don't know if it would be a real headache for makers to have more types. I guess what would be good for future versions of the engine might be a few paint brush or paint bucket type tools in the editor that could fill an area with a predefined or custom selection of trees - user could select an area and use the tool with a preset of coniferous trees or mixed deciduous and coniferous etc, even specifying the exact mixes - large type 1 and 2 deciduous forest ... gotta be easier than the current click fest. I digress ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky_Strike Posted November 7, 2021 Author Share Posted November 7, 2021 6 hours ago, JM Stuff said: Berlin Blablabla Im Namen blablabla... Hey @Lucky_Strike "we" will need "soon" some news foliages for the autumn camos guns and vehicles, this is a demand of the OKW for the proud German soldier, so... "So, los an die Arbeit schnell ! "Stamp real and conforme" anonyme or unreadable signature !! You, Sir, are bonkers Here are some autumn leaves for you You'll have to discuss it with my better half as she is in charge of my day to day activities. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM Stuff Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said: You, Sir, are bonkers Here are some autumn leaves for you You'll have to discuss it with my better half as she is in charge of my day to day activities. Yeah !! construct your way and let me know when the work is done...Important is the smile of the family PS I am not only Bonkers But I have also bon Coeur. Edited November 7, 2021 by JM Stuff 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky_Strike Posted November 8, 2021 Author Share Posted November 8, 2021 14 hours ago, JM Stuff said: bon Coeur No doubt about that 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 On 11/7/2021 at 1:57 PM, JM Stuff said: Yeah !! construct your way and let me know when the work is done...Important is the smile of the family PS I am not only Bonkers But I have also bon Coeur. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM Stuff Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 8 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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