Armor Target Arc

[CanuckGamer]

I am playing two PBEM games.  In one of them I had my tank set to armor target arc but the enemy tank still got off the first shot even though it moved in to line of sight and destroyed my tank.

In my other PBEM game one of my tanks knocked out an enemy tank that was stationary.  According to my friend he had his tank lying in ambush with armor target arc on but it never got off a shot.  My tank had moved in to position the previous turn.

I'm beginning to wonder if using target arcs is a liability?  I'm curious what the experience of other players are.

[Erwin]

Some possibilities:

1) The  center of the arc - ie, which direction the main gun is point - is important.

2) If the enemy tank is not in the friendly tank's front arc the friendly tank may not see it first  If the friendly tank was in the enemy's front  arc, the enemy tank may well spot and fire first.

3) A tank may have an arc but not LOS with its main gun to the target tank.

 

[Vergeltungswaffe]

I play a ton of pbem and I would never even consider not using target arcs, of all sorts, in the vast majority of battlefield situations.

Spotting is one of those c'est la vie things. It isn't perfect, but odd things happen in real life too.

[Bulletpoint]

If your tank is stationary, and the enemy tank moves into its field of view, you have a very big advantage to spotting and getting off the first shot. But it doesn't guarantee it will happen.

[Bufo]

7 hours ago, Vergeltungswaffe said:

I play a ton of pbem and I would never even consider not using target arcs, of all sorts, in the vast majority of battlefield situations.

Spotting is one of those c'est la vie things. It isn't perfect, but odd things happen in real life too.

This came up many times on the forum, and the devs confirmed that cover arcs do not modify the spotting.

[Artkin]

10 minutes ago, Bufo said:

This came up many times on the forum, and the devs confirmed that cover arcs do not modify the spotting.

I dont think thats what he was insisting

[Vergeltungswaffe]

Nope, just referring to the fact that sometimes you spot 'em and sometimes you don't.

He asked for people's experiences and I'm certain that target arcs aren't a liability, so I replied.

[womble]

Relative experience and leadership levels of the vehicles matters, as does prior information about the presence of a target and the actual viewing quality/vision aids of the given tank, and which of those are available can be affected by the axis of the target arc (whether that's a target armour or target anything arc). Terrain will have an effect too; it's possible that a tank sitting in ambush can have its LOS obscured if you're not careful about tree foliage, while still being visible to its putative ambush victim which hasn't got a tree in its face. And it's still random, so sometimes even the lower-chance-of-spotting element will get the drop on the one you'd 'expect' to spot and fire first.

Once the PBEMs are over, you might get a better idea of the issues involved in the specific cases if you can cooperate with your opponent to go back and rerun that turn a few times to see if there's something systematic, or if someone just got a better dice roll.

[Bufo]

9 hours ago, womble said:

and which of those are available can be affected by the axis of the target arc (whether that's a target armour or target anything arc).

Turning a unit in the given direction will have the same effect. Cover arcs aren't needed just for this as some guys think.

[dbsapp]

The spotting, which is in the heart of CM mechanics, is a pure game of chance, thus making CM a lottery.

I know that there are severel factors that affect the spotting (skill levels, optics, terrain etc), but in the end it's pretty random. 

Numerous times I witnessed how bottoned up tanks can't see the vehicle right in front of them from 2 meters distance, or your unit, hidden behind several layers of dense forest, got shot from the opposite side of the map. 

 

[Bulletpoint]

7 minutes ago, dbsapp said:

The spotting, which is in the heart of CM mechanics, is a pure game of chance, thus making CM a lottery.

I think of it more like poker: A game of chance where you can increase the odds of winning if you know the probabilities of all the different outcomes. But sometimes you just get dealt a really bad hand.

I played a small PBEM game where my opponent had a Panther and a Wirbelwind. I penetrated the Wirbelwind two times with 57mm - first from the front, then from the side. It just kept on going and chewing up my infantry. Later, I penetrated the Panther's turret from the side. It kept on running. Finally, my last hope was a bazooka team I hid at the bridge behind a small hedge. The Panther crossed the bridge through the armour arc, and passed right by the hedge, without getting spotted by the bazooka team. The Panther continued about 100 metres and then spotted the bazooka team hidden behind it, turned around and took them out.

So, yeah, luck does play a big role in the game.

[womble]

On 7/1/2021 at 8:31 AM, Bufo said:

Turning a unit in the given direction will have the same effect. Cover arcs aren't needed just for this as some guys think.

A Target Arc will turn a turreted vehicle's turret axis to bisect the arc it's given,  potentially meaning that the hull vision blocks aren't pointed in the direction of the TA while the hull axis is deflected from the turret weapon's axis. This might reduce the number of eyeballs that get a "chance to spot" something.

[MikeyD]

There was no mention of which side the player was playing and which tank. A two man turret T-34-76 is lousy at spotting much of anything, for example.

I used to joke that if your grand tactical plan depends on the enemy being slow, blind and bad shots you're probably going to lose the battle... unless you're playing against the Italians. 

[Bufo]

4 hours ago, MikeyD said:

unless you're playing against the Italians. 

Or the Spanish.

[Erwin]

Careful.  sburke will call you racist.  

[Combatintman]

4 hours ago, Erwin said:

Careful.  sburke will call you racist.  

Let's see shall we ...