Berlin CMRT Map

[RockinHarry]

2 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Just a quickie as I must dash out. I couldn't resist those  so had a quick look at the hedgehog objects. Now this is only a first attempt and the texture is distorting like crazy - even though it looks fine in Blender (always happens) but I give you the Westwall ...  We're gonna hang out our washing ... 

These are in your Entering Germany map. As you can see there's a lot of distortion, the  need some . Otherwise the objects come in quite well. The size is about the same as a hedgehog so they space out quite well and en masse give a pretty convincing effect. Next would be to test with yer actual tanks and breaching teams to see how they deal with them. If you would like to have a go I can upload this somewhere for you to grab.

Lovely @Lucky_Strike You did it! Though ain´t quite the uniformity of the real thing, but that´s the way they´re organized in game engine and can´t be changed I guess. Anyway... nice work! In case you can´t get the UV´s right it would suffice to use a uniformly looking texture as well IMO. I´d be ready to test some if you´re ready. Dropbox maybe? Til then lets sing along altogether
 

Edit: It looks like the would be welcomed by CMBS players soon as well.

Edited October 12, 2022 by RockinHarry

[Lucky_Strike]

11 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

Some my interpretation for parts of META data section in CM *.mdr files.

If taking a look at META data "meta_Unk1" and "meta_Unk2" (bottom of list) one could well imagine these triplets present XYZ coordinates defining a bounding box and likely relating to the whole (composite) objects center point (where the object is to be placed on ground according to the game´s AS 8x8m snapping points). In Blender shown as white circle with blue-red-green arrows. Think this data is measured in meters. Remains the question what this probable bounding (or hit-) box is used for in game.

Example for CMRT tree8.mdr and tree trunk part (wood) beeing selected:

Trees have a lots of elements, though the leaf branches are grouped into one they are all individual so there must be a lot of metadata associated with them. I suspect that's why trees use so many resources AND why the LODs kick in very quickly, especially when there are a lot of trees on the map. What is also interesting, and please don't quote me on this since that flawed memory may be kicking in again, but I seem to recall exporting tree mdrs from Blender without metadata and they apparently worked fine in game. I've looked at the metadata but really worry about changing anything in there. I think the best approach is what you're doing with individual changes, but it's a lengthy process for sure. I'll be facsinated to see what you discover.

It's very frustrating as a modder, I do wish that BF would chip in to our knowledge base a little on the subject of things like metadata, 3D modelling techniques and UV mapping. I feel that the little knowledge we have is more likely to compromise the game than learning a proper approach. It's not like they need to reveal any secret sauce just some advice on best practice would really be helpful and cool.

I'm going off now to sulk with my UV maps ...

[Lucky_Strike]

10 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

Do you work on original games MDR files or inject something new as well? And lol... messing up things in Blender is my second name.

Not sulking too long ...

I usually start with an original mdr then import or append found models. Also I've used a Blender add-on which is specifically designed for tree modelling - it basically allows one to grow a tree from scratch until the desired shape is achieved. It's quite good fun growing your own trees from sapling but very hit and miss and can be an utter time leech. With this approach I then have to do a lots of pruning to get the model to a sensible size in terms of polygon count ... then there's the joy of UV mapping, an utter nightmare on organic shapes.

11 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

Don´t ask what the parms all are in detail and relate to each other. Figured by trial and error method (and forgot again since tweaking couple years ago).

Yep, been there ... I'm happy with how your's works, so I leave that alone. The good thing about ReShade is that a lot of the shaders use language I'm more familiar with as they are based on stuff that image editing apps like PhotoShop do and one can also use LUTs to create instant effects, and it does it all in realtime on the fly so there's no need to leave the game to edit some pesky code.

11 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

Ah.. the ground tiles you mean. I bits of help myself with adding either black or blue 1m (or more) height increments to the rubble tile action spot. Then maybe bits of "sculpting" it further by layering one the foot path tiles on top. Similar to adding rubble piles bordering buildings directly, by using the 4m placement offset where appropriate. Finally bits of spicing with some the junk flavors.

From some my small test and trial sceneries. Volkssturmers roaming around in ruins. Also seen here some my replacements for 8x8 buildings timber frame roofs.

Yes those are a bit of a bugbear, but I know they are a limitation. What you've done there certainly improves the look.

What I discovered making the burnt ground textures is that it's very difficult to make a convincing tile that will blend nicely with its surroundings, flavor objects don't use 8-bit masks so they have a hard edge which creates a kind of floating look. there's no way to make them blend without editing the 1-bit mask to a silly degree. So what I tried as a compromise is to create a flat texture to replace a ground texture bmp then add detritus in the form of flavor object as you suggested above. It's a reasonable approach, certainly something I want to pursue later.

And YES  no timber frames in cities, those are looking great.

10 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

While it´s all great for just the Berlin series, I bits of find it hard creating my own maps from it. Thus I´d asked Nigel for some overview added to either a TXT or PDF file helping us other map/mission makers a bit. I.e for my own map making I tend to use just parts of it ATM.

Yes it's very difficult to figure out the best approach with these huge mod sets. But I think using it as a kind of Pick'n'Mix is fine. I usually make a separate install of the game and just dedicate it to these massive sets that way I can keep it all in one place and dip into it for bits to use elsewhere. I have a CMRT normal install, a CMRT Barbarossa for Kohlenklau's massive mod and a CMRT Endkampf for Nigel's Berlin mod.

10 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

Porting between games is possible. I´d myself once successfully ported some CMSF building stuff over to CMBN. Think it was some the flat roofs I wanted for some 8x8m CMBN modular building. There were some issues but I can´t remember ATM.

IIRC the most sophisticated porting and tweaking of buildings (and vehicles) was made for Heaven & Earth project here...

Some other projects like Barbarossa had similar achievements IIRC. 

And again your screenshots wetten my appetite for what you can possibly do for other (than CMBN) games as well. 

Yes the Heaven & Earth project is a fantastic example of what can be achieved. Not sure why BF don't commission the guys to go full out on that and make it into another module (Vietnam huhhum)

10 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

Re Brandenburg gate... hard to tell. H&E guys maybe know best. I´d likely attempt with a Brandenburg Gate made of multi part flavor objects. Or maybe a simplified geometry single part version that got all the decorative stuff added by means of textures and bump maps. Least effort and still good looking I´d guess. Also least draining on game performance instead when using a high poly model from somewhere in the net.

Orthodox church in CMBN. Adding a mosque to CMCW wouldn´t be unrealistic as well. At least for 2022 europe and maybe less for 1980ies.

Where did you put the Ortho Church into (building or flavor category)? Replaced some the 300 series ones? Re pixeltroopers and windows I´d suspect it has something to do with META data or some hardcoded stuff. Maybe also depends on where the replacement building is beeing added/replaced or appended.

I think what you and @37mm have suggested wrt the Brandenburg Gate is the best solution, it'll mean the footprint can be a proportionally correct size and it'll function and a building not just a big lump of eye candy fluff. Maybe @JM Stuff could have a quick go with that model he has, see if it'll work in practice. Would be such an iconic statement piece for the Berlin maps.

The Orthodox Church is just the one from CMRT, independent building 306. All I did was change the name of the mdr and LOD mdr to building303.mdr and building303-lod-1.mdr, then dropped them into my CMBN Z folder with their original bmps - the bmps keep their original names so the the mdrs find them. There's no 306 in CMBN, so no problem with that. I knew my thoughts about this couldn't be original. I could go into the mdr and edit the bmp links but there's very little point it was just a proof of concept thing for the cutting room floor.

10 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

Re soft shadows it could well be some settings are buried within some the Open GL shader files added with the games.

Yes, I remember now. Trees do cast and receive. I once dumped some original CM tree to either poles or stump flavor category and then had that huge performance drop (5-6 trees did suffice already). Guess it wouldn´t be much better with my Win10 computer now.

Yes I think it's a shader thing as well, it's very complex stuff and something that probably would need considerable coding effort (money).

Trees can work as flavor objects if one dumps the leaf branches, then one can have a lot more on a map without slow downs. It's how part of my burnt textures pack will work eventually. The issue I have at the moment is that when I delete the small leaf branches I'm still left with their shadows! Gotta spend some time working that out. 

[Lucky_Strike]

3 hours ago, JM Stuff said:

Genial " no pasarán"

Gandalf! 

[Lucky_Strike]

3 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said:

Bud Flanagan's trilby is hanging up in one of those trees.

That's a mod too far ... 

2 hours ago, Vacillator said:

And I love it Mark, great stuff.

Can you now mod Bud Flanagan's trilby?

Thanks and no.

You can have this instead ...

It's one of my favourite mods - courtesy of our friend and star modder/scenario maker/inventor/dreamer/human dynamo @kohlenklau

 

[Vacillator]

Everyone knows Phil has a big helmet .

I'm thinking the love here is so great that we should all get a room together.  Imagine the offspring mods, the proliferation of CM players, the law suits...

[JM Stuff]

12 minutes ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Gandalf! 

...et il s'enfuit sur son cheval blanc, laissant derriere lui, maintes, empreintes de son travail bien fait.

and he fled on his white horse leaving behind him many traces of his work well done.

 

ok back to the topic I will try to give you a dragon teeth that you can make some tests...

 

Edited October 12, 2022 by JM Stuff

[Lucky_Strike]

3 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

Lovely @Lucky_Strike You did it! Though ain´t quite the uniformity of the real thing, but that´s the way they´re organized in game engine and can´t be changed I guess. Anyway... nice work! In case you can´t get the UV´s right it would suffice to use a uniformly looking texture as well IMO. I´d be ready to test some if you´re ready. Dropbox maybe? Til then lets sing along altogether
 

Edit: It looks like the would be welcomed by CMBS players soon as well.

Thanks for the tune!

I did a quick battle test on your map with a reduced force - they seem fine; nothing can touch them, even tried some M7 shelling at 50m, just made big holes around them. Tanks will drive around them, going a long way out of their way just to avoid them. Infantry are happy to run through and around them, seemed to use them as cover to an extent. Breaching doesn't work though, which is also true of the original hedgehogs. So they do their job. I've bundled it up, you (and anyone else interested) can grab it here.

Please keep in mind it's a beta and will likely change. Also the concrete texture is a new texture not a replacement, so that can just go in your z folder and won't affect anything else. The mod should work for any game that uses the hedgehog.

Have fun!

[Lucky_Strike]

7 minutes ago, Vacillator said:

Everyone knows Phil has a big helmet .

I'm thinking the love here is so great that we should all get a room together.  Imagine the offspring mods, the proliferation of CM players, the law suits...

That's very nearly an ooh err moment! Phil will no doubt be happy to quash any rumours about the size of said item.

[Lucky_Strike]

8 minutes ago, JM Stuff said:

...et il s'enfuit sur son cheval blanc, laissant derriere lui, maintes, empreintes de son travail bien fait.

and he fled on his white horse leaving behind him many traces of his work well done.

ok back to the topic I will try to give you a dragon teeth that you can make some tests...

Far nicer than some of the crude comments have been received!

[Vacillator]

1 minute ago, Lucky_Strike said:

That's very nearly an ooh err moment!

I'd say it was definitely such a moment.

Being less 'saucy' I do think the various individual and sometimes combined efforts of those on this thread (but not me sadly) add greatly to the game.  Must get my finger out.

[Lucky_Strike]

2 minutes ago, Vacillator said:

I'd say it was definitely such a moment.

Alright then - here he is:

2 minutes ago, Vacillator said:

Being less 'saucy' I do think the various individual and sometimes combined efforts of those on this thread (but not me sadly) add greatly to the game.  Must get my finger out.

I absolutely agree - it's the conversation that makes a big difference. Your encouragement goes a long way to making it worthwhile, and of course having happy guinea pig testers is always needed and very welcome. Now go play with some dragons teeth - grab Harry's map up above and take them for a spin.

[JM Stuff]

6 minutes ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Alright then - here he is:

I absolutely agree - it's the conversation that makes a big difference. Your encouragement goes a long way to making it worthwhile, and of course having happy guinea pig testers is always needed and very welcome. Now go play with some dragons teeth - grab Harry's map up above and take them for a spin.

Now go play with some dragons teeth - grab Harry's map up above and take them for a spin.

funny bird !

In case interrested here is a link for differents sizes of teeth 1 to 6 but you have to downloading check for the licence but I think is free you have only to mentioned the name to the owner.

I guess the produce is "blank" and without textures

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2787221

JM

Edited October 12, 2022 by JM Stuff

[Warts 'n' all]

1 hour ago, Vacillator said:

Everyone knows Phil has a big helmet ....

I remember as a somewhat innocent teen hearing my old dad shout "Helmet" at one of the blokes who played in the football team that he ran, whilst he walked through town minding his own business.

Me - Why did you call J***** "Helmet"?

Him - Cuz 'es a K*** Head.

Ah, the joys of a puritan upbringing.

[Vacillator]

I did say Phil 'has' a big helmet, not that he 'is' a big helmet.

And oddly I had thought of taggin you in, especially when Frankie arrived.

[RockinHarry]

1 hour ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Thanks for the tune!

I did a quick battle test on your map with a reduced force - they seem fine; nothing can touch them, even tried some M7 shelling at 50m, just made big holes around them. Tanks will drive around them, going a long way out of their way just to avoid them. Infantry are happy to run through and around them, seemed to use them as cover to an extent. Breaching doesn't work though, which is also true of the original hedgehogs. So they do their job. I've bundled it up, you (and anyone else interested) can grab it here.

Please keep in mind it's a beta and will likely change. Also the concrete texture is a new texture not a replacement, so that can just go in your z folder and won't affect anything else. The mod should work for any game that uses the hedgehog.

Have fun!

Thanks for taking the time! Dumped them into CMBN and they do work as intended. Re final version could have textures/UV´s look like in photo below. At time of battles in 1944/45 these were hardly 5-6 years old so still look rather "fresh".

Made some quick concrete like texture in GIMP (Grey + Noise) and dumped it in. (CMBN you enter germany, US frontline view, Movie shader, Shadows and Shading ON) Here´s how it looks thus far.

[NPye]

Found this website got some awesome 3d stuff on...

 

[Vacillator]

1 minute ago, RockinHarry said:

At time of battles in 1944/45 these were hardly 5-6 years old so still look rather "fresh".

Back on topic, phew.  They look great, but I can't help thinking, did they really think that would stop anyone?

[RockinHarry]

1 hour ago, JM Stuff said:

...et il s'enfuit sur son cheval blanc, laissant derriere lui, maintes, empreintes de son travail bien fait.

and he fled on his white horse leaving behind him many traces of his work well done.

 

ok back to the topic I will try to give you a dragon teeth that you can make some tests...

 

might work I guess. The dark row of teeth looks interesting (blackened). Just as there were some grass fires burning or something like that.

[RockinHarry]

16 minutes ago, Vacillator said:

Back on topic, phew.  They look great, but I can't help thinking, did they really think that would stop anyone?

Depended on where and when in 1944. Here´s just an example of some interesting breaching battle of US 3rd AD on 12th-13th september 1944. https://www.3ad.com/history/wwll/spearehead.west/g3.chapaters/seine.siegfried.htm#anchor1156942 . I´d already prepared a CMBN map when I figured the pillbox bug will prevent a mission made on it from working as desired. Scrapped.

 

[RockinHarry]

29 minutes ago, NPye said:

Found this website got some awesome 3d stuff on...

 

Nice! and it appears having couple of free stuff as well.

https://www.textures.com/

[Lucky_Strike]

2 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said:

I remember as a somewhat innocent teen hearing my old dad shout "Helmet" at one of the blokes who played in the football team that he ran, whilst he walked through town minding his own business.

Me - Why did you call J***** "Helmet"?

Him - Cuz 'es a K*** Head.

Ah, the joys of a puritan upbringing.

LOL LOL LOL 

There's another word the swear detectors can't do much about ... <<< I have no idea what this emoji thing is meant to be, it's what I got when I searched for helmet in the emoji palette, looks like an underdeveloped acorn to me.

[Lucky_Strike]

2 hours ago, Vacillator said:

I did say Phil 'has' a big helmet, not that he 'is' a big helmet.

And oddly I had thought of taggin you in, especially when Frankie arrived.

Subtle difference which I hope he appreciates 

[Lucky_Strike]

2 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

Thanks for taking the time! Dumped them into CMBN and they do work as intended. Re final version could have textures/UV´s look like in photo below. At time of battles in 1944/45 these were hardly 5-6 years old so still look rather "fresh".

Made some quick concrete like texture in GIMP (Grey + Noise) and dumped it in. (CMBN you enter germany, US frontline view, Movie shader, Shadows and Shading ON) Here´s how it looks thus far.

Great. Yeah I'm going to look at the texture, I just grabbed a quick one off the net, it's probably a bit too weathered. It also needs to fit properly, the stretching does my head in, it actually offends me that I make it look nice in Blender then the game chews it up!

I have to go figure ... 

The real ones in you photo are very clean looking, and they seem to be joined by some sort of concrete walls - is that to bridge a small gully?

[Lucky_Strike]

2 hours ago, NPye said:

Found this website got some awesome 3d stuff on...

 

Yes that's a really useful site and has lots of free stuff. I've found many textures on there and they keep adding to it.