Berlin CMRT Map

[JM Stuff]

12 minutes ago, Lucky_Strike said:

A lighter less weathered version ...

Differents sizes will be also welcomes, you didn't take a look of the link that I send you ?

Anyway a very good common job !

I am busy with news wrecks for the time, but later I will have a look of new obstacles, I like very much the differents pictures of things that we can eventualy created.

JM

[NPye]

40 minutes ago, Lucky_Strike said:

A lighter less weathered version ...

 

Awesome are they available for download? Cheers

[NPye]

5 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

There could likely be a solution for the random flavor object removal though.What do you think? I´d guess @NPye also could make use of some these stuff for the various roadblock types beeing used in Berlin battle? (trams, rubble & brick etc)

 

Yes, I have seen them used in Berlin Photos. I'd love to see Trams, Rail cars and engines plus anything else from the period. Cheers

 

[Vacillator]

2 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

THANKS AND PRAISE BE TO OUR ALMIGHTY MOD GOD @kohlenklau

Yes, praise be.  No wait, Phil only wears that headgear on Sundays.

And I'm also really liking @RockinHarry's suggestion of Panzersperre, that would be great.  It just looks good on the road.

Those gnashers are also nice, I assume you casually toss the ironwork into them as the dastardly Amis approach?

Either that or the Germans were also at the forefront of setting up parkour facilities?

[Lucky_Strike]

1 hour ago, JM Stuff said:

Differents sizes will be also welcomes, you didn't take a look of the link that I send you ?

Anyway a very good common job !

I am busy with news wrecks for the time, but later I will have a look of new obstacles, I like very much the differents pictures of things that we can eventualy created.

JM

I did, but for the hedgehog mod into dragon's teeth I think we are limited to one size and one texture. These are NOT flavor objects ... yet. It's a quick way to build your very own Westwall for a map. If we also do flavor objects then, yes, it's possible to make all sorts of barriers. I had a conversation with @kohlenklau about this and, similar to what @RockinHarry's suggesting, one approach is to use the hedgehog as an invisible, immoveable object with flavor objects as the visible item, if we can make this work as there are caveats as Harry pointed out. It would be similar to the way your wrecks might be based on a barrel or something like that. This then allows us to have maybe half dozen various sizes of teeth, barriers and other gnashers.

1 hour ago, NPye said:

Awesome are they available for download? Cheers

Soon my friend, soon ...

I'll make a version 1 for you to get stuck into then we can see about some others using flavor objects. I'm thinking The Westwall mod set (otherwise known as Mrs Miggins hangs out her Washing on the Siegfried Line)

Re: the tram, my latest thoughts on that are an invisible immobilized AFV - a halftrack, or even something like a Bison would do the trick I reckon, so long as it's thinly armoured and not likely to be dangerous. It will provide a kind of core for cover and some concealment, so the pixeltroops would hopefully hide behind it. Course another option that just occurred to me is low bocage - not really a feature of cities so might be a way to mod a straight section into something more useful. Could certainly make the basis for a pile of rubble combined with an impassable ground tile like forrest - who knows.

Anyway I digress - your tram if on something like a halftrack could also encourage your pixeltruppen inside ... or what about a small independent building ... no ... could we? I really don't know enough about buildings to say ...

28 minutes ago, Vacillator said:

And I'm also really liking @RockinHarry's suggestion of Panzersperre, that would be great.  It just looks good on the road.

Yes, yes, yes, lets not get ahead of ourselves here - those things look like giant jacks ...

For the uninitiated, this is how we used to pass the time ... (for @Warts 'n' all  I think this is still in your future, although according to Wikipedia you may have been playing with a different material)

[RockinHarry]

5 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

This is a great idea. I had discussed with @NPye the possibility of a tram road block as flavor object earlier but hadn't really applied myself to it. Using invisible, immovable items like the hedgehogs is perfect, though it's very likely that he's used a lot of hedgehogs as is for his maps. In the case of the tram I was thinking of an invisible immobilised AFV - a halftrack or something similar to add a bit of cover value as well.

Nevertheless there's still plenty to explore here. And Harry, I like your other blocks - similar to the 'British' versions that @Warts 'n' all posted a picture of. The anti-tank trench would be great for Kursk scenarios!

As for the limiting factor of having just one actual "obstacle type" object in the game we could substitute it with a good number of different looking flavors, incl. even the original cross beam type (then re added as flavor). Combined with the invisible base thing we can just gain, but not loose anything IMO. Lots of flexibility here and limits is only those that makes the obstacle type not sticking to various terrain types like walls, building AS and others. Though I found out obstacles can be placed in a building flat rubble type (multi Shift-Alt click on a building) AS. That was new to me re obstacle placement.

Re halftrack to tram could likely work. I´ll investigate in that somewhat later again. I still believe in identifying some the META data that is currently available for editing in Blender. In worst case the most valuable data hasn´t been identified yet (Blender editable) or buried in the game executable. The data that possibly makes for a "cover" value, hitboxes and such.

[RockinHarry]

6 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Now without further ado ... THANKS AND PRAISE BE TO OUR ALMIGHTY MOD GOD @kohlenklau

He took them away, he chewed them up and sent me a beam of dazzling, tantrum-quenching, inspiration ...

Here are your dragon's teeth in their proper, glorious form...

So what made the difference ... I had completely forgotten that the CM engine does not like planes/faces of objects that are joined across angles. What we have to do is to separate the faces, ALL OF THEM, so that the texture fills the face and doesn't then seemingly smear across to the next face. I don't know why it's set this way, but it is.

How does the saying go ...? Ah yes, Where there's a way there's a Phil

Next up can someone make some of these gnashers ...

Praises to @kohlenklau first! It´s that small but vital insider info that gets us on the right path again! Although my current Blender and 3D editing skills are just basic I think I understand the mentioned method (faces of objects that are joined across angles need beeing detached something). And now we have your teeth in all their intended glory! Kudos!

5 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

A lighter less weathered version ...

I like both, but think I´d use the less weathered version for westwall/uncle siegfried. There´s also the Oder-Warthe fortifications which in parts is somewhat older than westwall. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festungsfront_Oder-Warthe-Bogen (interesting for a number of "what if" battles maybe)

I´ve yet to investigate what was possible beeing constructed in the city of Metz area. There were quite some heavy battles in 1944 with vintage forts beeing involved, then beeing bits of modernized later. And Brest 1944 comes to mind as well. That for just the obstacle types. Edit: Tackling wire obstacles might be worth another investigation. But could be difficult getting it to work for the "connecting" feature (like trenches). So in case one tries adding different types like i.e

etc.

I could also refer to my book which has many needed details as well.

Edited October 14, 2022 by RockinHarry

[NPye]

Look at these beauties made in sketchup and Blender... BTW GREAT Work guys....

 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2022 by NPye

[NPye]

Berlin Mod 2 Samples...Coming Soon.

There's a famous British Actor in 1 of the plates who? and which plate?...

Edited October 14, 2022 by NPye

[Lucky_Strike]

35 minutes ago, RockinHarry said:

As for the limiting factor of having just one actual "obstacle type" object in the game we could substitute it with a good number of different looking flavors, incl. even the original cross beam type (then re added as flavor). Combined with the invisible base thing we can just gain, but not loose anything IMO. Lots of flexibility here and limits is only those that makes the obstacle type not sticking to various terrain types like walls, building AS and others. Though I found out obstacles can be placed in a building flat rubble type (multi Shift-Alt click on a building) AS. That was new to me re obstacle placement.

Quite, there's a lot we can do with the flavor objects. I'm thinking two mods: one a simple HedgeHogs to Dragon's Teeth for quick and convenient Westwalls etc. The other a comprehensive flavor object barrier set with an invisible hedgehog as immovable object - all sorts of fun.

38 minutes ago, RockinHarry said:

Re halftrack to tram could likely work. I´ll investigate in that somewhat later again. I still believe in identifying some the META data that is currently available for editing in Blender. In worst case the most valuable data hasn´t been identified yet (Blender editable) or buried in the game executable. The data that possibly makes for a "cover" value, hitboxes and such.

I think you're right about the metadata. I'm pretty certain that a lot of what you see in Blender is relative positional coordinates for the mesh, but some is related to light, reflection, shade etc, whilst some is probably an absolute mystery.

Good news is I managed to maintain the metadata in the dragon's teeth so they should play well.

22 minutes ago, RockinHarry said:

(faces of objects that are joined across angles need beeing detached something). And now we have your teeth in all their intended glory! Kudos!

That's pretty much it. AND going forward I will hopefully be applying this to my other mods so no more nasty textures.

24 minutes ago, RockinHarry said:

I like both, but think I´d use the less weathered version for westwall/uncle siegfried. There´s also the Oder-Warthe fortifications which in parts is somewhat older than westwall. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festungsfront_Oder-Warthe-Bogen (interesting for a number of "what if" battles maybe)

I´ve yet to investigate what was possible beeing constructed in the city of Metz area. There were quite some heavy battles in 1944 with vintage forts beeing involved, then beeing bits of modernized later. And Brest 1944 comes to mind as well. That for just the obstacle types.

Lots of fun ...

And to top it off I have now done some more work with the textures and, inspired by what I learned doing my multiple bocage texture a few years back I tried using numerical variations in the naming of the texture file - dragon-teeth.bmp, dragon-teeth 2.bmp, dragon-teeth 3.bmp, dragon-teeth 4.bmp etc (how many do we want? Anyone?) and yes it works ...

... a nice new dragon's tooth anyone ...

Each set of teeth will be textured the same, so one gets clusters of same textured teeth. What would be interesting to know is do they persist in their different textured groups once placed on a map, could we indeed have a row of just dark ones and a row of sparkly clean ones ... assuming the mod is used to begin with of course.

All this has got me thinking ...

[Lucky_Strike]

25 minutes ago, NPye said:

Look at these beauties made in sketchup and Blender... BTW GREAT Work guys....

 

Thanks Nigel, I think this one look like the Berlin ones. I did a search for models previously when we discussed this, but finding a licence-free one will be the challenge. I'm sure we can but I haven't found one yet. Also we have to make it compatible with the game engine so we'll loose a lot of the fine details, that'll have to be rendered in the texture rather like our AFVs and buildings. And of course it'll have to be wrecked!

... Bond, James Bond ...   Very cool! 

[NPye]

12 minutes ago, Lucky_Strike said:

And of course it'll have to be wrecked!

 

Oh Yes, indeed...

[RockinHarry]

1 hour ago, NPye said:

Berlin Mod 2 Samples...Coming Soon.

There's a famous British Actor in 1 of the plates who? and which plate?...

 

 

 

 

Daniel Craig

[RockinHarry]

3 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Course another option that just occurred to me is low bocage - not really a feature of cities so might be a way to mod a straight section into something more useful. Could certainly make the basis for a pile of rubble combined with an impassable ground tile like forrest - who knows.

Way to go. Not every terrain type/texture/object is or can be used for a particular mission and its map. I´d prefer preserving the low bocage type and instead (if available) use the tall one instead. Low bocage still has some uses for forrested map parts and maybe others (filling forests with more LOS blocking terrain and potential infantry cover, as well as spicing up forest edges which has been discussed few years back already).

Here´s something from my older CMBN prototypes. Low bocage to be used as sort of felled (pine) tree obstacles. In order to make these look like pine trees I exchanged the leaves with the pine tree type (needles). Otherwise it´s still good old bocage terrain type with related properties. They block vehicular movement BUT can be cleared by means of heavy HE like satchel charges as usual. Makes for nice "defended roadblock" mission types or "modules" (part of a bigger scenario). Preparing shoulders is an additional option to make this roadblock type even more difficult to deal with. Either by mining them or placing light or heavy forest ground tile etc. Off course that is a no FOW type yet can be dealt with by mission play house rules.

Ingame looks. Some german engineers about to clear a path for waiting armor.

And editor setup.

 

Edited October 14, 2022 by RockinHarry

[NPye]

25 minutes ago, RockinHarry said:

Daniel Craig

lol Nope but i have used him before....

[RockinHarry]

3 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

I think you're right about the metadata. I'm pretty certain that a lot of what you see in Blender is relative positional coordinates for the mesh, but some is related to light, reflection, shade etc, whilst some is probably an absolute mystery.

Good news is I managed to maintain the metadata in the dragon's teeth so they should play well.

Yep, all that maybe. For META investigations I tend to look at very simple smaller objects, like single crates and such in Blender. If used measure is in meters I see lots of coinciding data that could translate to 3D XYZ coordinates. Thus my theory it´s bounding/hit boxes sort of. At least part of it and possibly the "unknown" type triplets the most likely ones.

3 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

That's pretty much it. AND going forward I will hopefully be applying this to my other mods so no more nasty textures.

Cool! If Putler does not turn us all into ashes we should have a gorgeous CM Xmas this year.

3 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

And to top it off I have now done some more work with the textures and, inspired by what I learned doing my multiple bocage texture a few years back I tried using numerical variations in the naming of the texture file - dragon-teeth.bmp, dragon-teeth 2.bmp, dragon-teeth 3.bmp, dragon-teeth 4.bmp etc (how many do we want? Anyone?) and yes it works ...

... a nice new dragon's tooth anyone ...

Each set of teeth will be textured the same, so one gets clusters of same textured teeth. What would be interesting to know is do they persist in their different textured groups once placed on a map, could we indeed have a row of just dark ones and a row of sparkly clean ones ... assuming the mod is used to begin with of course.

Cool! Even more variations! Guess there´s all randomness applied by the game engine when it comes to these type objects placement. I´d wish BFC would switch off (or make an option for it) that randomization feature, so once a terrain or object is placed it doesn´t change again after leaving the editor. This applies for individual trees but also for the annoying switch of roof tiles for modular buildings. Thus far I can only get rid of unwanted roofs by modding or removing them.

3 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

All this has got me thinking ...

lol

Edited October 15, 2022 by RockinHarry

[RockinHarry]

11 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

Now that we can effectively make hedgehog obstacles to look like something different (dragon teeth), I revived an old idea which is "invisible" hedgehog type obstacles. So what is it good for? You can declare any viable (for hedgehog obstacle) action spot to become a Nogo tank obstacle, maybe also adding bits of its suspected infantry cover value.

For that purpose I downscaled LS´s teeth (1/10th size) and made the (added) texture alpha layer full transparent (white). Texture is a small (~18kb) single color 256x256, not original one.

Usage:

Deny the AIP (and player) certain action spots beeing used for vehicular movements like i.e forest edges (to deny entering a forest at all), "known" boggy areas or soggy riverbanks (could look like simple grass or dirt terrain i.e), channelize or deny scripted AIP vehicles moving through certain areas and more that might come to mind.

Additionally one can create various type of obstacles (brick & wood type roadblocks, tram, felled tree obstacles.....) beeing put to some appropriate flavor object slots. Then combine with "invisible" hedgehog obstacle on map and voila...you have a working AT obstacle looking like something different (or intended).

Similar use: AT Trench. Normal -3m deep ditches (blue ditch lock type) aren´t an obstacle to vehicles at all. At least not for tracked type. Put invisible hedgehog into it and you have the looks of the ditch with the AT blocking effects of the hedgehog.

Below is some examples I just got tested a bit. Thus far these obstacles work like they always did, but look like something different here. However... there´s a problem with flavor object method. Hedgehog obstacles is a random cluster of 8 objects beeing placed in an AS. Since these take precedence, every flavor object randomly occupying the same 1m grid node within the AS´s 8x8m grid gets removed.

Editor or deployment screen looks.

 

In game looks while resolving 1st game turn. Hedgehog object (LS teeth) with normal "visible" looks. See how the previously placed tree stumps got removed.

 

Another shot of the AT Ditch with LS teeth obstacles in "visible" mode for comparison.

 

There could likely be a solution for the random flavor object removal though.What do you think? I´d guess @NPye also could make use of some these stuff for the various roadblock types beeing used in Berlin battle? (trams, rubble & brick etc)

 

 

Forgot adding and linking file to dropbox. (Invisible hedgehog obstacles) For those who are interested. https://www.dropbox.com/s/xfwjbl728dojxt3/LS-RHZ_Invisible_HedgehogObstcl.zip?dl=0

And another I forgot asking. How´s about adding smaller type war junk flavor objects and heaps? Something like (broken) firearms, helmets, opened ammo boxes, gear and such. I noticed @NPye started adding similar things to Berlin already.

Edited October 15, 2022 by RockinHarry

[Lucky_Strike]

2 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

Way to go. Not every terrain type/texture/object is or can be used for a particular mission and its map. I´d prefer preserving the low bocage type and instead (if available) use the tall one instead. Low bocage still has some uses for forrested map parts and maybe others (filling forests with more LOS blocking terrain and potential infantry cover, as well as spicing up forest edges which has been discussed few years back already).

Sadly I think we are limited to low bocage and hedge in RT. Hedge does provide some concealment but I doubt offers much cover. It could probably be modded to look a bit taller but that only adds eye candy. I absolutely agree that low bocage makes a great addition to forest and woods - I often use the corner angled sections to represent thickets and brush in woods, for both cover, concealment and to block LOS as you say. Combined with the odd fallen log flavor object it makes for a very convincing overgrown forest floor.

What I like about bocage is that the ground deforms under it so creating a natural rise, ideal for topping with rubble and debris. I might work something up to see how it looks. The bocage leaf branches are very randomly distributed, there's not much structure beneath them so there is plenty of scope in the actual mdr to do something interesting. All the existing leaf branches and the 'trunks' could be remodelled. They use 1 bit masks which would lend themselves to jagged twisted debris.

2 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

Here´s something from my older CMBN prototypes. Low bocage to be used as sort of felled (pine) tree obstacles. In order to make these look like pine trees I exchanged the leaves with the pine tree type (needles). Otherwise it´s still good old bocage terrain type with related properties. They block vehicular movement BUT can be cleared by means of heavy HE like satchel charges as usual. Makes for nice "defended roadblock" mission types or "modules" (part of a bigger scenario). Preparing shoulders is an additional option to make this roadblock type even more difficult to deal with. Either by mining them or placing light or heavy forest ground tile etc. Off course that is a no FOW type yet can be dealt with by mission play house rules.

Ingame looks. Some german engineers about to clear a path for waiting armor.

What a great idea. Again the modelling could be taken further to add actual trunks which could lie parallel with the direction of the bocage, pretty sure they would be destructible just like the bocage is. Shouldn't be hard to mock something up to give it a try, I've no shortage of bocage and tree models! Could look really great in an Ardennes or Hürtgen winter scene.

2 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

Cool! If Putler does not turn us all into ashes we should have a gorgeous CM Xmas this year.

Let's see what Santa can rustle up ...

2 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

Cool! Even more variations! Guess there´s all randomness applied by the game engine when it comes to these type objects placement. I´d wish BFC would switch off (or make an option for it) that randomization feature, so once a terrain or object is placed it doesn´t change again after leaving the editor. This applies for individual trees but also for the annoying switch of roof tiles for modular buildings. Thus far I can only get rid of unwanted roofs by modding or removing them.

Yes a grid feature a bit like the tree placement tool would be very useful. I'm gonna have to give it a try to see if the textures randomly swap. I noticed the same with bocage, but am never sure if they do or don't once a map is saved.

Onwards ...

Edited October 15, 2022 by Lucky_Strike

[Lucky_Strike]

2 hours ago, NPye said:

lol Nope but i have used him before....

Daniel Craig look-a-like ...

[NPye]

12 minutes ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Daniel Craig look-a-like ...

lol Ya how did you guess...lol

Edited October 15, 2022 by NPye

[RockinHarry]

9 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Sadly I think we are limited to low bocage and hedge in RT. Hedge does provide some concealment but I doubt offers much cover. It could probably be modded to look a bit taller but that only adds eye candy. I absolutely agree that low bocage makes a great addition to forest and woods - I often use the corner angled sections to represent thickets and brush in woods, for both cover, concealment and to block LOS as you say. Combined with the odd fallen log flavor object it makes for a very convincing overgrown forest floor.

What I like about bocage is that the ground deforms under it so creating a natural rise, ideal for topping with rubble and debris. I might work something up to see how it looks. The bocage leaf branches are very randomly distributed, there's not much structure beneath them so there is plenty of scope in the actual mdr to do something interesting. All the existing leaf branches and the 'trunks' could be remodelled. They use 1 bit masks which would lend themselves to jagged twisted debris.

Yes, that little berm is among best cover when it comes to direct fire small arms, like is all ground mesh type cover. It´s also the TacAI main preference indicated when i.e pixeltroopers go rather into some shellholes (ground mesh deformation) instead of remaining in FH´s and trenches.

Interesting thing, both CMFB and CMRT have all files related to high bocage installed with the BRZ game archieves. Wonder why they got "deactivated" in the game exe. Just cause there was no high bocage in eastern theather or ardennes? Doesn´t BFC knows long time we´re making good use of everything incl. with the game, either by modding or some other creative usage? Odd decision but oh well.

Re low bocage as felled tree obstacle. I´d as said go with a fully leafed fallen tree flavor object then beeing put onto the bocage in parallel. If this flavors center placement point would be in the middle and thus centered in the bocage AS, one can both rotate it comfortably (LMB click) and have it surely removed with bocage geometry by any succesfull clearing attempt (satchel charge or other big HE). So thats the idea. Think I got it working once and need browsing through old backup files again. Though would prefer using something made by you instead.

Couple options come to mind. Clean cut felled trees (with all branches and twigs still on) like in forestry or those beeing cut by explosives, either engineers work or HE. Various sizes and types (evergreen & deciduous) as well as seasonal stuff. And again going overboard lol

[NPye]

Just made a nicely detailed bespoke King Tiger from the Muncheberg Panzer Division.

[Lucky_Strike]

3 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

Yes, that little berm is among best cover when it comes to direct fire small arms, like is all ground mesh type cover. It´s also the TacAI main preference indicated when i.e pixeltroopers go rather into some shellholes (ground mesh deformation) instead of remaining in FH´s and trenches.

Interesting thing, both CMFB and CMRT have all files related to high bocage installed with the BRZ game archieves. Wonder why they got "deactivated" in the game exe. Just cause there was no high bocage in eastern theather or ardennes? Doesn´t BFC knows long time we´re making good use of everything incl. with the game, either by modding or some other creative usage? Odd decision but oh well.

Re low bocage as felled tree obstacle. I´d as said go with a fully leafed fallen tree flavor object then beeing put onto the bocage in parallel. If this flavors center placement point would be in the middle and thus centered in the bocage AS, one can both rotate it comfortably (LMB click) and have it surely removed with bocage geometry by any succesfull clearing attempt (satchel charge or other big HE). So thats the idea. Think I got it working once and need browsing through old backup files again. Though would prefer using something made by you instead.

Couple options come to mind. Clean cut felled trees (with all branches and twigs still on) like in forestry or those beeing cut by explosives, either engineers work or HE. Various sizes and types (evergreen & deciduous) as well as seasonal stuff. And again going overboard lol

Yes I reckon we can do something with this. It is sad that BF don't include the tall bocage. I know the idea behind it is to imitate a specific feature of the Norman landscape, but they are also useful for creating other types of landscape. I guess the ditch-locking feature was good enough for things like roadside ditches but as you rightly point out it's the low berm that is very useful - perhaps that's what they could incorporate into the game instead, a bocage feature without the foliage on top.

I could probably conjure up something like your images of toppled trees:

... with or without foliage. They would probably have to be a bit smaller than these trees, but would still block roads and for be an interesting challenge midst battle.

The version that's been felled with explosives on the trunk would be a lot more work to create so I would likely go with the ones with full rootball or sawn trunks.

Edited October 15, 2022 by Lucky_Strike

[Lucky_Strike]

1 hour ago, NPye said:

Just made a nicely detailed bespoke King Tiger from the Muncheberg Panzer Division.

Nice, like the zimmerit effect. Great addition to your mod

[Lucky_Strike]

Here's the latest and probably first release version of the hedgehog cum dragon's teeth mod.

This is a slightly warmer colour concrete and represent teeth fairly recently cast. Maybe just a litle tweak but otherwise they are part of v.1.

I did some quick, probably very unscientific, tests to see if the different textures would remain with the teeth in the same locations from their initial deployment through to actual game play, even to a saved game. It seems that they do but with a caveat. Everything went swimmingly at first then a strange curve-ball got into the mix. I had positioned the set above in the editor, saved the scenario, opened it to edit again, opened it as both Axis and Allies to play a couple of turns, finally opened a game save. Through nearly all of this the texture remained the same, then on the moment at which an American M4 approached them and they popped into view as he spotted them, they suddenly inherited a mix of textures. Now this was very unexpected because I had not seen a mix within a single set/base of teeth but only across sets, so set 1 might look like above, set 2 might be dark, set 3 another texture. Instead I saw dark teeth mixed in with the teeth above. So that was the end of that. No further saves would shake them out. Just another odd inconsistent behaviour.

Onwards ...