"Turned out" on modern vehicles

[OrdeaL]

Whats the pros and cons on turning out of a modern tanks with thermals for example?

If the commander has his head out of the hatch does that mean he's no longer using the thermals? Same question for some small vehicles like hummer with the laser designator, Because if the "gunner" isn't inside the vehicle because his heads out the hatch then hes not using the screen inside to scan with thermals right?

Just trying to figure out if i'm doing it wrong is all, Cheers.

[Erwin]

This is what I found compiled:

BUTTONED SPOTS BETTER:

Here is a possibly incomplete list of vehicles that spot better while buttoned all the time (but only to the front of the vehicle).

M1A2 Abrams

T-90AM

BM Oplot

M2A3 Bradley

M3A3 Bradley

M7A3 B-FIST

Khrizantema

Tunguska

I don't know for certain, but I think it very unlikely that vehicle crews have night vision goggles, so nearly all vehicles should stay buttoned in low light conditions.

 

UNBUTTONED SPOTS BETTER:

Recon-specific M1127 Stryker with LRAS3

 

Regarding spotting problems:

This is what I found recently in CMSF2 (not sure if same issues in CMBS):

 

 

Edited September 9, 2020 by Erwin

[OrdeaL]

Thanks so much for this Erwin, Cheers!

[IICptMillerII]

Its important to remember that while on newer vehicles like an M1A2, even though the commander has an independent thermal imaging sight which gives him great spotting ability, he still has better overall situational awareness while unbuttoned. Things such as seeing/hearing threats to the sides and rear of the tank, and seeing/hearing where other friendly units are. Plus, while unbuttoned the commander can share C2 information with infantry (such as spotting information) whereas while buttoned he cannot. 

Also, it is still SOP in the real world for tank commanders to remain unbuttoned until either in direct combat, or forced to by something like enemy artillery falling nearby. Again, this is mostly so the TC can maintain his situational awareness, communicate with the other tanks in his element, and better direct the driver. 

Edited September 10, 2020 by IICptMillerII

[Chibot Mk IX]

Yes,  verbal communication between different groups can be extremely effective .  For example, an inf team spotted an ATGM ahead, they run back and communicate with an unbutton Tank commander. Then TC communicate with other tanks in the same tank company on PDA while the inf team report their finding to their leader through radio. In couple min, the ATGM's position will be broadcast to every units on the map.

[Erwin]

13 hours ago, IICptMillerII said:

still SOP in the real world for tank commanders to remain buttoned until either in direct combat

You meant unbuttoned???

[IICptMillerII]

47 minutes ago, Erwin said:

You meant unbuttoned???

Whoops! Yes I did mean unbuttoned. Edited my post to correct that. 

[Bulletpoint]

15 hours ago, IICptMillerII said:

Plus, while unbuttoned the commander can share C2 information with infantry (such as spotting information) whereas while buttoned he cannot. 

I don't know about the modern war titles, but I believe that at least in the WW2 games, tanks can share info with close-by infantry and other tanks even while the tanks are buttoned..

Edited September 10, 2020 by Bulletpoint

[Erwin]

1 hour ago, Bulletpoint said:

I don't know about the modern war titles, but I believe that at least in the WW2 games, tanks can share info with close-by infantry and other tanks even while the tanks are buttoned..

One often saw telephones hanging at the rear of WW2 tanks.  Is that no longer possible in modern tanks?  Seems odd that inf-armor communications may be worse than in WW2 era.

[MikeyD]

M46. M47, M60 series and M1A1 Abrams have a phone box in the back. They seemed to have forgotten about it for initial production M1 Abrams. I can't recall if there was a phone box on the back of M26 Pershing and I'm too lazy to go look it up. 

[Combatintman]

4 hours ago, Erwin said:

One often saw telephones hanging at the rear of WW2 tanks.  Is that no longer possible in modern tanks?  Seems odd that inf-armor communications may be worse than in WW2 era.

They're not worse for a whole bunch of reasons.

[OrdeaL]

8 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

I don't know about the modern war titles, but I believe that at least in the WW2 games, tanks can share info with close-by infantry and other tanks even while the tanks are buttoned..

So which is correct? Tanks needing to be unbuttoned or not to communicate with infantry, we have two different answers in here. Hopefully a developer can shed light on this?

[Bufo]

5 hours ago, OrdeaL said:

So which is correct? Tanks needing to be unbuttoned or not to communicate with infantry, we have two different answers in here. Hopefully a developer can shed light on this?

"A vehicle must be unbuttoned to horizontally share (report) information from about 9 to 32 meters.

A vehicle can be buttoned & horizontally share (report) information if it is within 8 meters of the other vehicle."

http://community.battlefront.com/topic/119474-c2-information-sharing/?do=findComment&comment=1719467

Edited September 11, 2020 by Bufo

[OrdeaL]

Thanks for this Bufo.

[Erwin]

8 hours ago, Bufo said:

"A vehicle must be unbuttoned to horizontally share (report) information from about 9 to 32 meters.

A vehicle can be buttoned & horizontally share (report) information if it is within 8 meters of the other vehicle."

http://community.battlefront.com/topic/119474-c2-information-sharing/?do=findComment&comment=1719467

Presumably this is for WW2 era C2.   Modern has to be better, yes??

[Howler]

3 minutes ago, Erwin said:

Presumably this is for WW2 era C2.   Modern has to be better, yes??

Do modern troops yell louder?

Edited September 11, 2020 by Howler

[MikeyD]

There's a fancy name for it... 'Integrated battlefield' I think. In theory each unit would have as much battlefield info on their PDA as a CM player viewing the map from camera level 3 in God mode. 

[Erwin]

That's why in the game it's surprising how slowly info gets disseminated.