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3 hours ago, Holien said:

What confuses me is that China and other countries have developed decent testing regimes and surely could share the expertise? It seems like each country is reinventing the test process and test kits.

 

Again COVID-19 Testing Kits. Before asking where? who? how? when? I am still left with the suggestion that they do not exist.

Then can I place my money on the appearance of stories like this: Testing kits being in such short supply that only certain top level departments can use them and give the statistics. Whilst non of the lower level doctors will ever see these kits, and will never be able to verify anything. So convenient.

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I've got an idea.  Let's NOT trust scientists & doctors who ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. Let's trust Fox news, who've done a stellar job of brainwashing people into being very unsafe

JFC Kettler could you just once not spread your conspiracy bull**** all over the place.  Goddamn man.

Here are some shocking news from the UK. Perhaps @Warts 'n' all can confirm:

Posted Images

Hi Wicky thanks for the wry smile I got tonight with the image. Last year I spent August through to just after Christmas seeing the critical care pathway followed for my Dad and it was sobering to get to grips with...

He in an odd way,  dodged a bullet bowing out early on this debacle and even last year watching with the staff un stretched with the virus, it was not a smooth process.  My hat's off to those in service trying to deal with this nightmare. 

I think there was some exercise more recent that highlighted what we needed to do, those are 15 years old comments. I will do some more digging to see what was told to the government. 

Anyway Boris unlike Mr T is  on the whole dodging criticism with his better daily TV performance. 

But as noted by those in the know we have wasted time since January at least a month which could have been better used.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-uk-cases-john-ashton-nhs-hospital-covid-19-budget-a9396211.html

As for Brexit as an "Economically inactive adult" I await my call up to serve in the fields. 

Interesting times just got a whole lot more interesting and all I wanted was a quite retirement.

Stay safe...

Edited by Holien
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The Pangolin Connection

With these sorts of new virus. There is always a connection with intermediate species being the transferring host. With H1N1 it was bats. With Covid-19 Pangolins are thought to be the connection. If you haven't heard of Pangolins before that is because they are relatively new to our continuum. Which would explain our lack of resistance. (blame Cern 🤐)

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2016 the UK government undertook an exercise showing what would happen. 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/28/exercise-cygnus-uncovered-pandemic-warnings-buried-government/

Looks like Telegraph are digging. 

Another article but I guess based on Telegraph. 

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/03/28/cygn-m28.html

The UK have dropped the ball on this unlike South Korea and Singapore who took this seriously. 

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Have never been too concerned about a nuclear threat, but a chemical or bio terrorist attack by (eg Islamic terrorists) has always been many folks' worst fear. 

So, if anything good comes out of this pandemic it will be better preparation for the almost inevitable terrorist attack.

Actually... who knows... the current outbreak may even be the result of a terrorist attack.  Let's face it, we all know that the public would never be told if such a widespread and effective attack took place for fear of complete societal panic and breakdown.

 

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Annual report on global preparedness for health emergencies

Global Preparedness Monitoring Board - September 2019

In this first annual report, the Board explores and identifies the most urgent needs and actions required to accelerate preparedness for health emergencies, focusing in particular on biological risks manifesting as epidemics and pandemics.

https://apps.who.int/gpmb/assets/annual_report/GPMB_Annual_Report_English.pdf

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Thanks Wicky

I have had a quick scan and it is clear the world leaders on the whole have just ignored this.

We have had some serious near misses like Ebola but as it was a "African" issue it was easy for western leaders to dismiss. 

Too late now, but what is shameful is the current leadership failure to respond once we started to see what happened in China.  The lock down of Wuhan was a massive red flag and I think was not taken seriously enough.  Like Ebola ohhh that is a "Chinese" problem it won't bother us...

It is also clear from the pdf this fitted the warnings and if we had prepared we could have saved lives, the UK had even undertaken simulations and then the current leadership buried the report as it did not fit their need to reduce costs and close down wards...

Arrrggghh "Get Brexit Done" "Protect the NHS" lovely slogans that mask the realities from the average Joe public....

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The UK has been rated as one of the most prepared nations in the world, and some experts have said the coronavirus outbreak would have overwhelmed any government. However, a 2019 parliamentary inquiry into biological security was postponed and then cancelled because MPs were focused on Brexit and then the December general election. 
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/mar/29/uk-strategy-to-address-pandemic-threat-not-properly-implemented

😞

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On 3/29/2020 at 5:52 PM, Holien said:

I have had a quick scan and it is clear the world leaders on the whole have just ignored this.

 

Their way is to let something escalate and then overreact on it afterwards, for decades. Like this article from MIT already advocates:

Title: "We’re not going back to normal"
Subtitle: "Social distancing is here to stay for much more than a few weeks. It will upend our way of life, in some ways forever"

Random scary bit: "We’ll adapt to and accept such measures, much as we’ve adapted to increasingly stringent airport security screenings in the wake of terrorist attacks. The intrusive surveillance will be considered a small price to pay for the basic freedom to be with other people."

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/615370/coronavirus-pandemic-social-distancing-18-months/

PS: My replies here may be annoying to some. But between all the worries of past weeks, appropriate  concern for your/our Freedoms is lacking. Sorry but I care for those.

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All points of view are good. This thread's a distraction if nothing else. I tend to use irony as a joke, sometimes to a fault hence the mandela insinuation. But yeah balance of power is definitely going to change because of this. Way of life will change permanently. A lot of passive income dished out to ease the strain on the individual and not knowing when the end will come leaves a very uncertain future. Could spring-back, could collapse. Priorities first. Take care of the people. Hunker down and low profile.

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Here in UK vulnerable & elderly told to hunker down initially for 3 months while virus is rampant - so looking at 3–6+ months of various forms of social distancing / distruption continuing.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/2020/03/how-cities-flattened-curve-1918-spanish-flu-pandemic-coronavirus/

If history is an indicator, we are in this for the long haul. In spite of our most fervent wishes to get outside and enjoy the rites of spring—college graduations, Mother’s Day, youth sports—life is unlikely to return to normal anytime soon. The great influenza of 1918, considered the deadliest pandemic in modern history, offers a social distancing roadmap for tackling today’s COVID-19.

After Philadelphia detected its first case of flu in September 1918, leaders warned people about openly coughing and sneezing, but ten days later the city hosted a parade attended by 200,000 people. The number of influenza cases continued to mount, and two weeks after the first case there were 20,000 more. Several cities (St. Louis's Red Cross motor poll is shown above) responded quickly and decisively—and had a strikingly lower initial death rate.

As the world grinds to a halt in response to the coronavirus, scientists and historians are studying the 1918 outbreak, which killed 675,000 Americans and from 50 million to 100 million people worldwide, for clues to the most effective way to stop the pandemic. 

St. Louis strictly communicated and enforced social distancing, giving it one of America’s lowest urban death rates when the outbreak, known as the great influenza, swept the nation (and the world). Minneapolis, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, and Columbus, Ohio, did the same thing—and had lower death rates the first few months.

But that’s not the takeaway—because St. Louis relaxed. It declared victory too soon.

image.png

That second bump in this graphic above shows the influenza's tragic reoccurrence in St. Louis, writes Nat Geo’s Nina Strochlic. Death rates shot up, higher than before.

The lesson from history–don’t cave to a restless, pent-up, impatient populace; it could be fatal. Even as the beauty of spring comes into bloom, keep your distance!

Edited by Wicky
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The UK government said it skipped the EU procurement scheme for ventilators because it missed an email.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/30/uk-discussed-joint-eu-plan-to-buy-covid-19-medical-supplies-say-officials

EU minutes seen by the Guardian reveal British official took part in eight EU health security meetings on coronavirus crisis

At least four of those meetings discussed EU procurement schemes on: 31 January, 4 February, 2 March and 13 March.

While the government marked Brexit day on 31 January, a British representative joined EU member states and commission officials to discuss what was then called “the cluster of pneumonia cases associated with novel coronavirus in Wuhan, China”.

At this meeting, four EU member states said the virus could require increased stocks in Europe of personal protective equipment (PPE) such as gloves, masks and goggles, and the commission said it was ready to help if asked.

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Posted (edited)

Loved the wonderfully stress-inducing article:

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/615370/coronavirus-pandemic-social-distancing-18-months/

"This isn’t a temporary disruption. It’s the start of a completely different way of life."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/16/world/middleeast/israel-coronavirus-cellphone-tracking.html

"...use the cell-phone location data with which its intelligence services track terrorists to trace people who’ve been in touch with known carriers of the virus." "...you’ll have to be signed up to a service that tracks your movements via your phone."

"...governments or companies could choose any criteria—you’re high-risk if you earn less than $50,000 a year, are in a family of more than six people, and live in certain parts of the country, for example."

ie: 90%+ of the US population.

The other item that no one seems to have mentioned is the growing collapse of customer service.  Presumably reps are off sick. 

My wife has been on hold for over an hour trying to reach her CC company has to give up.  I tried to reach Social Services via e-mail to enquire about an elderly relative 4 times in the past 10 day - no response at all.  I find that often transatlantic phone lines are jammed and I get "All Circuits Are Busy" recordings - after 6+ attempts to call I have to give up for that day.  

Edited by Erwin
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On 3/29/2020 at 3:50 AM, Erwin said:

Have never been too concerned about a nuclear threat, but a chemical or bio terrorist attack by (eg Islamic terrorists) has always been many folks' worst fear. 

So, if anything good comes out of this pandemic it will be better preparation for the almost inevitable terrorist attack.

Actually... who knows... the current outbreak may even be the result of a terrorist attack.  Let's face it, we all know that the public would never be told if such a widespread and effective attack took place for fear of complete societal panic and breakdown.

 

Watch it or your new nickname is gonna be Erwin Kettler or mini Kettler, Kettler lite. 

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3 hours ago, Erwin said:

I beat you to that one, earlier. Yes it is a lovely article.

 

12 hours ago, Wicky said:

That second bump in this graphic above shows the influenza's tragic reoccurrence in St. Louis, writes Nat Geo’s Nina Strochlic. Death rates shot up, higher than before.

The lesson from history–don’t cave to a restless, pent-up, impatient populace; it could be fatal. Even as the beauty of spring comes into bloom, keep your distance!

Or don't. And be critical when your income and freedoms are being butchered.

Seems Nina Strochlic is the usual feminst and hangs out with the royal family, that likes to fake their own corona illness.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/contributors/s/nina-strochlic/

https://zfem.wordpress.com/2015/02/17/nina-strochlic-presents-evidence-of-gender-discrimination-in-laws-around-the-world/

-----------------

Meanwhile in the real world, where corona is not found:

- I was travelling internationally throughout january with a colleague. Some airports were already announcing pandemic messages. Some passengers had mouthcaps. Was at a very crowded party in february. Was at two bars almost every friday. Three birthday parties. My colleages are still travelling internationally op to this very moment. How does this make sense?

Then:

- No known case in this town. Where gossip travels fast.

- Large hospital in city nearby is quiet, according to nurses from my town.

- Obituaries in newspaper are as usual.

- My niece knows three people that were quarantined for suspected infection earlier. None of them were ever tested. One of them having a bad cold after a trade fair in northern Italy (right there and then, where the european press madness started). He was interned but never tested

- I don't know anybody in real life that actually knows a confirmed corona case in person.

There is one sort of exception and that is that in an elderly home were another niece works; three people were said to have corona and were moved to another facility. Average age about 75. I don't actually count this as valid because it could be anything, and they are out of sight now.  (Also as I wrote earlier the goverment tends to add the oldest of the elderly to their corona death statistics:  averages of 82 and 85. So are these actually tested? Don't answer...)

 

 

 

 

 

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32 minutes ago, Kevin2k said:

Or don't. And be critical when your income and freedoms are being butchered.

Seems Nina Strochlic is the usual feminst and hangs out with the royal family, that likes to fake their own corona illness.

Public health interventions and epidemic intensity during the 1918 influenza pandemic - Richard J. Hatchett, Carter E. Mecher, and Marc Lipsitch

"Early implementation of certain interventions, including closure of schools, churches, and theaters, was associated with lower peak death rates, but no single intervention showed an association with improved aggregate outcomes for the 1918 phase of the pandemic. These findings support the hypothesis that rapid implementation of multiple NPIs can significantly reduce influenza transmission, but that viral spread will be renewed upon relaxation of such measures."

 

Days After a Funeral in a Georgia Town, Coronavirus ‘Hit Like a Bomb’

A mourner came to Albany, Ga., to attend the funeral of a retired janitor. After a pause while the infections incubated, the virus swept through the community.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/coronavirus-italy-update-young-people-hospital-luca-lorini-bergamo-a9402531.html

In Italy, 61 doctors who caught the coronavirus have died, the Italian Association of Doctors said Monday.

In all, 8,358 health workers have tested positive for coronavirus, according to the Italian National Institute of Health.

Out of the 61 deceased doctors, 40 were working in Lombardy, the Italian region worst-hit by coronavirus.

On the verge of 100,000 cases: With more than 97,000 cases of the virus, Italy is likely to soon become the second country in the world to break the 100,000 mark after the United States.

Recently, hospitals in Lombardy have seen people aged between 25 and 50 diagnosed with Covid-19 and subsequently hospitalised for treatment, according to local media reports. 

“Even if the data is only preliminary, the fact there are more young people hospitalised and in intensive care compared to the first wave can be interpreted as a natural phenomenon,” Pierluigi Lopalco, a professor from Pisa University, told Italian newspaper

“In Italy, the first clusters of the infection started around hospitals, more commonly frequented by older people, and in small towns,” he said.

 

"My colleages are still travelling internationally op to this very moment"
Where are they travelling?  hopefully y they can get reparatriated home or have the emeans to hunker down for a month or three.

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Wicky: You don't know these people. It is mainstream media. It is their TV reality.

My challenge: Ask around. People you know face-to-face in real life. 

If it is such a historical pandemic should it not be observable directly? Not in its psychological fear effect, but in actual effect.

 

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1 hour ago, Wicky said:

"My colleages are still travelling internationally op to this very moment"

Where are they travelling?  hopefully y they can get reparatriated home or have the emeans to hunker down for a month or three.

I was in Brazil, Sao Paulo international airport and also local airports. Colleagues: Indonesia, Germany and Peru. They are all just back in Holland or enroute now.

I don't care, they don't care. I have two colleagues that are scared and absent though.

Edit: It is not that I don't care about my health. But I found that in life I must be my own doctor. Sad but true...

Edited by Kevin2k
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35 minutes ago, Kevin2k said:

Wicky: You don't know these people. It is mainstream media. It is their TV reality.

My challenge: Ask around. People you know face-to-face in real life. 

Well a tad hard to do face-to-face 🙂

Spoken over phone with a front line nurse friend and my local hospital where I use to work has got 2 full C19 (respiratory wards) with coronavirus patients... and using Day theatre space for ventilated patients - last I heard 3 dead.   In Essex total 14 dead, with 1851 nationally. An no haven't seen them personally as I don't work there anymore. Do you think my friend is tellling me fibs?

Was 'WW1' also faked? all seems a bit computer generated and unreal don't you think. I've never spoken to anyone who was there.

 

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1 hour ago, Kevin2k said:

Wicky: You don't know these people. It is mainstream media. It is their TV reality.

My challenge: Ask around. People you know face-to-face in real life. 

If it is such a historical pandemic should it not be observable directly? Not in its psychological fear effect, but in actual effect.

 

Hmmm maybe I am misunderstanding you but you seem to be thinking this is not real?

Maybe a language  translation issue?

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