Drunken shotgun Mk19

[Pandur]

I know the Mk19 on the strykers and the USMC tansports was very effective in CMSF, but now they are outright dangerous to friendlys, i keep doing friendly fire with them onto own vehicles and troops. The WW2 rocket artillery was almost more accurate than the Mk19 

I am at the end of the army campaign and i give them short cover arc and hide them so they dont see enemy, the .50cal ones are so much better now. i think this went a little too far.

[Boche]

Yeah i dont like the mk19s in CMSF2 either. The spread is awful. Im playing the CMBS battle pack and some platoons have 3 out 4 strykers armed with mk19s and its just bad. Much prefer the 50 cal. 

I believe this was addressed some time ago but i dont know what came of it.

Edited October 20, 2019 by Boche

[Erwin]

Agreed.  You cannot use AGL's safely if there are any friendlies anywhere near the flight path of projectiles.  Mind you it may also be an issue that the AI will happily blast away at an enemy even when friendlies are very close and get hit repeatedly.

[Pandur]

Maybe they had to do something about the extreme effectiveness, i can understand that. These things rained down a tight and lethal stream of 40mm grenades. They where a lot more deadly compared to the .50cal, and usually you had 1 in 4. Like the HQ vehicle was the Mk19, the 3 strykers with the squads had the 50cal. That was in CMSF.

Now i wish all of them would be .50 cal cause the Mk19 stryker is dangerous and when it opens fire it hits everything else but the target, it is expending a ton of ammo to hit a single target too. The funny thing is, the supposedly more unstable and low-tech version, the Mk19 (AGS30 too)on tripod behaves as you would expect, it fire a much more tight pattern more similar to the CMSF version, the vehicle mounted Mk19 on the other hand, it is terribly inaccurate, even on short ranges.

I dont know if the USMC amphibious transport, that huge tracked vehicle, suffers form the same problem, i did not use it recently. I wonder how nobody say anything about it or this was not yet, at least somewhat, fixed in 2 patches? I mean it is kinda obvious? By the way i am on version 2.02, so i am on the latest version.

[Boche]

Well if its that effective in real life...then thats what the game is supposed to represent. Ive fired AGLs at targets almost 1 kilometer away and they spread out but the group was tight, and this was from an AGL mounted on a humvee-like vehicle. And yes I have notied that tripod mounted AGLs shoot a tighter group. They also seem to fire off extremely long bursts. MIx the long burts with almost no accuracy makes them useless.

Edited October 20, 2019 by Boche

[Pandur]

I guess it must be a bug, but i wonder why it is still in the game.

[Sir Lancelot]

agreed, the same problem shows up in Black Sea.  I read that Mk19 has an effective range out to 1500 meters, but I can't even reliably hit a BTR 82 with a burst at under 100m.  I really wish BF would fix this, it makes mk19 next to useless

[IMHO]

 

I posted DoD guidelines on actual Mk19 accuracy. Clearly CMSF2/CMBS Mk19 is waaaaaay off mark when compared to real life.

Edited November 24, 2019 by IMHO

[DougPhresh]

My battery was recently issued GMGs for "battery defense" and boy are they a pain in the ass to clean and maintain. Still, they could be modeled better in CM.

[Der Zeitgeist]

So, is there a fix for this bug coming at some point? It's been well over a year since this has first been reported.

[akd]

This is stationary accuracy, correct?  The early Stryker RWS was not stabilized.

Edited February 26, 2020 by akd

[Der Zeitgeist]

11 hours ago, akd said:

This is stationary accuracy, correct?  The early Stryker RWS was not stabilized.

Yes, from a stationary Stryker.

[Pandur]

Patch 2.03 out, Mk19 still terrible. I do understand that the Mk19, while performing quiet realistic in CMSF, was probably statistically too good(too many kills in average) as an infantry unit does line up at building walls and when the Mk19 opens fire at them, it just mows them down and makes probably more kills than it would do in reality(if that can be compared).

 

Im my recent scenarios i played, the Mk19 gets about 2-5 kills in urban scenarios(like Al Amarah) when it is empty. That are about ~300 or so grenades for ~4 kills. That is some big nerf. Rifle squads get more kills. I wish scenarios would give out more .50 cal, the scenario i play now gave me 3 Mk19 and 1 .50 in a platoon

That said, they do supress well, when you aim down a building with 2 of them nothing is sticking its head up, but you can not go anywhere near it  

Edited August 26, 2020 by Pandur

[holoween]

For some reason the strikers mounted mk19 has a far worse dispersion than the crew seved one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-sjWRH8meo

 

[Der Zeitgeist]

Anything new on that issue from the developers?

It would be nice at least to know if this behaviour is intended or if it is indeed considered a bug. 

Edited April 25, 2021 by Der Zeitgeist

[HaplessOperator]

Hey, if seven months is reasonable, so is 18. Devs should take a look at this when it finally comes time to do that Black Sea release. Shame it's an issue across multiple games for the same weapons platform.

[BamaMatt]

Sober version of the Mk19

Hey, don't fret folks. The patch to fix this bug is coming any day now. I can feel it.

[domfluff]

From that video. I have never seen an AGL in CM be anything like this inaccurate.

The AGLs in CM do what they're supposed to - they work as suppression weapons, and put out a ton of fire downrange. Should the CEP be tighter? I can believe that, but I'd like to see some actual figures to back that up, because all of the footage I've seen looks pretty similar to the effect in-game.

 

[Pelican Pal]

Your argument falls apart when every vehicle mounted AGL fires like it’s been on a week long bender while every tripod mounted one fires with good accuracy. Like are you seriously arguing that a AGL mounted onto a many thousand lb vehicle is going to be less controllable than a man packed variant deployed on a tripod?
 

You are going to be surprised by this but a RCWS isn't going to result in accuracy that would make a Brown Bess blush.

Edited June 30, 2023 by Pelican Pal

[domfluff]

The "argument" of "I can believe the CEP should be tighter, but I'd like some data to back that up?"

I have no idea why that "falls apart" or what other argument you or anyone else thinks I'm making there.

The fact there is a discrepancy between the way tripod and vehicle mounted weapons are working is observable, yes. Does that mean the vehicle ones should be more accurate, or the tripod ones less accurate? Does a vehicle mount offer less support for the (considerable) recoil? These are knowable things, and "well, obviously" doesn't mean anything.

[Artkin]

0:43 from Pelican Pal's video shows 6 AGL's landing within 1 square meter. More evidence is needed but yeah AGLs seem pretty broken. 

[BamaMatt]

If you forward the video to the 4:32 mark you will get a better idea of the issue than showing someone firing a tripod mount firing shots skimming the grass.

[Pelican Pal]

You've repeatedly bring out this wishy washy "well we don't know" despite.

 

- DoD Mk19 gunnery qualification cards
- video evidence

- the clear discrepancy between vehicle and tripod mounted
- service members pointing out issues with the weapon they used (assuming I'm reading  Boche correctly)
- Combat Mission itself having the weapon be more accurate historically

The fact of the matter is that there is a clear problem with AGLs in CM. Another long running bug that was identified 5 years ago

Edited June 30, 2023 by Pelican Pal

[Lethaface]

20 hours ago, domfluff said:

The "argument" of "I can believe the CEP should be tighter, but I'd like some data to back that up?"

I have no idea why that "falls apart" or what other argument you or anyone else thinks I'm making there.

The fact there is a discrepancy between the way tripod and vehicle mounted weapons are working is observable, yes. Does that mean the vehicle ones should be more accurate, or the tripod ones less accurate? Does a vehicle mount offer less support for the (considerable) recoil? These are knowable things, and "well, obviously" doesn't mean anything.

I'd expect a 'mechanically stabilized' mount in a ROW setup on a vehicle to feature more tight groupings compared to a manually stabilized tripod mount. The weapon itself isn't more accurate mounted one way or the other, but I'd also guess a properly zero'ed weapon 'slaved' to the weapon controls will also be more accurate compared to the general soldier using the iron sights.

That being said, for a suppression type weapon the 'drunken' aspect has some positives as well.

[Artkin]

On 6/30/2023 at 2:14 PM, BamaMatt said:

If you forward the video to the 4:32 mark you will get a better idea of the issue than showing someone firing a tripod mount firing shots skimming the grass.

Yep that's the same exact clip that I saw in pelicans video. In multiple instances the rounds are landing literally right on top of each other.