Minefield Questions

[Ted]

I’m playing a scenario that the briefing says watch out for minefields.

I used the “move” command for my Engineers and walk forward in to where I would think the minefields are.

Red “Minefield” markers pop up.

I use the “Mark Mines” command.

In one turn (1 minute) or so the Red minefield markers turned Yellow (?) (There’s nothing in the manual that points this out) 

A couple of questions then…. 

1. Does the red minefield turning yellow indicate a “Marked Mine” area and is now safe – more or less – to move through if using the “Move” command? 
2. Does the speed of discovering and marking an area dependent on the amount of engineers doing the marking, i.e. does a full platoon mark an area faster than a team?

[kevinkin]

Having fun navigating minefields huh? I sound like an old boss of "mine". Anyway, here is a thread that may help:

Kevin

[Erwin]

Unless things have changed in the latest patches, marking mines only reduces the probability of getting blown up, it doesn't eliminate it - best to move SLOW thru a marked minefield.

[Ted]

Kevin, good link thanks.

I’m surprised there’s nothing in the manual that says marked mine signs turn from red to yellow.

Erwin, Thanks for the advice. My thought is moving slow (crawling) will exhaust troops by the time they get through the field. Have you found this? 

Finally, from your link Kevin the only answer to my question about does it matter if it’s a squad or team finding /marking was this: 

“The more eyes in an engineer team the easier to spot mines.  (5 man team finds mines easier than a 2 man team)  I think.”

To know one way or another (it’s not in the manual) would be a big help and would change the tactics I would use with minefields.

 

Perhaps someone at Battlefront would know?

[womble]

Better exhausted than blown up. If you Move through a field and someone strays from the path (or a previously undiscovered mine detonates), the rest of the element will attempt to run out of trouble at Quick or Fast, and more carnage will ensue. At least with Slow (as well as, I think, reducing the chances of a misstep), there's a better chance the poor blighters will not compound the error in case of someone setting off an errant mine.

[Ted]

Well, yes there that

33 minutes ago, womble said:

Better exhausted than blown up. 

Well, yes, there's that.

I've just tried a test and succesfully moved 4 squads of engineers and theiir HQ's through a cleared minefield with no casualties.

I guess time pressures will dictate which tactics to use. Sometimes. I guess, you just have to roll the dice.  

 

 

[kevinkin]

Ted, some things re:CM are delegated to the fog of war (not detailed in the manual) and require some trial and error practice - thankfully the editor helps with that. 

[Anthony P.]

AFAIK, it is mentioned that the mine sign changes colour in the manual, and once a minefield is marked it can be 100% safely crossed provided that your guys don't start running. So as has been mentioned, have them crawl (Slow) through it unless you can be 100% certain that there won't be any shooting or explosions close enough that it makes them stop walking (Normal) and start running (Quick).

Needless to say, if you can, the best thing is to just bypass the minefield altogether.

[[MyIS] Buffpuff]

And a good read about clearing mines, etc. for your reading pleasure Ted

 

Edit: Disregard. I didn't read the whole thread like a goof...Kevinkin posted the link. It's still a good read though!!!

Edited May 16, 2016 by [MyIS] Buffpuff

[Erwin]

"...it can be 100% safely crossed provided that your guys don't start running."  You have a page number for that? 

I recall getting blown up when using MOVE thru a marked minefield in CMBN.  But that was years ago.  It is possible a wee patchy has changed things.  Also, IIRC if there is more than one minefield in a "hex", each one has to be discovered and marked separately...  Or you'll think you're safe to move thru, but...

More clarification re minefields would be helpful.

[womble]

It's not possible to overlap minefields, so there will never be more than one minefield in an AS ("hex"). You can prove this to yourself by attempting to deploy minefields in any mode you fancy.

[Warts 'n' all]

5 minutes ago, womble said:

It's not possible to overlap minefields, so there will never be more than one minefield in an AS ("hex"). You can prove this to yourself by attempting to deploy minefields in any mode you fancy.

Technically that is correct. Sadly one of the missions in The Road to Montebourg had a bit of a bug whereby more than one mine marker was placed in the same AS, much to the consternation of the maker of a youtube series of the campaign.

[Anthony P.]

8 hours ago, Erwin said:

"...it can be 100% safely crossed provided that your guys don't start running."  You have a page number for that? 

I recall getting blown up when using MOVE thru a marked minefield in CMBN.  But that was years ago.  It is possible a wee patchy has changed things.  Also, IIRC if there is more than one minefield in a "hex", each one has to be discovered and marked separately...  Or you'll think you're safe to move thru, but...

More clarification re minefields would be helpful.

Taken from the FB manual:

"Engineers have the ability to mark known minefields. After a minefield is marked by an engineer unit, other units may safely (but slowly) move through it without running the risk of setting off additional mines."

I'm more recent to CM, so I've only played the later versions. Have often moved troops through marked minefields at normal speed, never had an issue.

[womble]

3 hours ago, Anthony P. said:

Taken from the FB manual:

"Engineers have the ability to mark known minefields. After a minefield is marked by an engineer unit, other units may safely (but slowly) move through it without running the risk of setting off additional mines."

I'm more recent to CM, so I've only played the later versions. Have often moved troops through marked minefields at normal speed, never had an issue.

The problem comes when other stimuli cause the Move-ing troops to pick up the pace. So it's as safe as Slow or Hunt if there's no chance of incoming fire.

[Anthony P.]

Don't think I've ever tried Hunt through a minefield, I thought that's liable to cause them to step on mines?

[womble]

14 hours ago, Anthony P. said:

Don't think I've ever tried Hunt through a minefield, I thought that's liable to cause them to step on mines?

I always use Slow, but there are reports of good results with Hunt. They will hit the deck rather than run, if brought under fire, so it should be safer than Move.

[Anthony P.]

Yeah, that sounds perfect! I'd just always thought it wasn't a safe way to cross minefields for some reason, so never tried it.

[A Canadian Cat]

8 hours ago, womble said:

I always use Slow, but there are reports of good results with Hunt. They will hit the deck rather than run, if brought under fire, so it should be safer than Move.

Yeah I use hunt actually - not that this is a common occurrence.  Slow is just to slow and Move's quirk that it changes to fast when things go sideways is bad for mines.

7 hours ago, Anthony P. said:

Yeah, that sounds perfect! I'd just always thought it wasn't a safe way to cross minefields for some reason, so never tried it.

Ah just to be clear we are talking about moving through a marked mine field.  If they are not marked you might as well run through them and expect it to end badly

[Bulletpoint]

If you use HUNT to cross the minefield, it may help to put short covered arcs on them so they won't stop if they spot a distant enemy.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Bulletpoint

[A Canadian Cat]

Yes, good point.  I only learned about doing that recently so had not yet applied it to traversing mines and forgot to add that in.  I think I have had men move through marked mines twice maybe three times so far.

[Bulletpoint]

Another trick "of mine": If you have a couple of tanks or spare vehicles and you're short on time or have no engineers, you can run the vehicles back and forth over the mined spot to detonate the mines. Just make sure you don't continue long enough to immobilise the vehicle.

At some point, the mine signpost will turn green to show there are no more mines in the ground. Your vehicles will take damage to the tracks or wheels, but if you can spread the damage out on several vehicles, it doesn't hurt to have their tracks on yellow damage state. Also, minefields are very rarely deep, usually only one square in depth.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Bulletpoint

[MikeyD]

"Another trick "of mine": If you have a couple of tanks or spare vehicles and you're short on time or have no engineers, you can run the vehicles back and forth over the mined spot to detonate the mines."

You reminded me of an old WWII armor field manual that actually talked about sacrificing a couple tanks in order to drive a path through a minefield during a big offensive. It was a rather extreme tactic but there's simply no quick-and-easy way to cross a minefield. I'm also reminded of a story about a cleared road that had heavy east-moving-only traffic all day. Come evening a single jeep was driving west from the opposite direction and detonated a buried mine.

[Bulletpoint]

2 minutes ago, MikeyD said:

You reminded me of an old WWII armor field manual that actually talked about sacrificing a couple tanks in order to drive a path through a minefield during a big offensive. It was a rather extreme tactic but there's simply no quick-and-easy way to cross a minefield.

Maybe not even that extreme, since AP mines would do very limited damage to the tank (mainly just the track, a routine thing to change). AT mines would be worse, but I think they generally just severely immobilised the tank, calling for extensive repairs. Definitely worth it to keep the offensive rolling, I would say.

[Anthony P.]

On 2016-05-18 at 5:18 PM, Bulletpoint said:

If you use HUNT to cross the minefield, it may help to put short covered arcs on them so they won't stop if they spot a distant enemy.

Tried this yesterday, had one mine triggered after a while. Most units seemed to make it through the marked minefield on Hunt just fine, but it didn't seem 100% safe. I also had pioneer units go up before that to detect mines and mark them on Normal. They found some mines, but failed to locate one minefield until they'd detonated one of the mines. I thought they were supposed to be able to detect mines all the time, or is there a chance that they fail? I also had some cases where they moved across ground without finding any mines, only for other units to step on mines there, or for the same pioneers to come back over the same ground and detect the mines first then.

[Bulletpoint]

2 minutes ago, Anthony P. said:

Tried this yesterday, had one mine triggered after a while. Most units seemed to make it through the marked minefield on Hunt just fine, but it didn't seem 100% safe. I also had pioneer units go up before that to detect mines and mark them on Normal. They found some mines, but failed to locate one minefield until they'd detonated one of the mines. I thought they were supposed to be able to detect mines all the time, or is there a chance that they fail? I also had some cases where they moved across ground without finding any mines, only for other units to step on mines there, or for the same pioneers to come back over the same ground and detect the mines first then.

Marked minefields are never 100 pct. safe, but moving by HUNT, MOVE, or SLOW just makes it safer.

Yes, there's a pretty big risk your enginers won't find the mines and may either walk through the minefield without realising it or may step on mines. I think it depends on engineer experience level too.

One thing I don't know: Is it possible to detect a minefield while being in the adjacent square, or must the engineers be inside the mine infected square?