Minefield Questions

[Anthony P.]

Good question. I'd add to that by further asking if having them move slower (Slow, or one WP per square) would increase the chance of spotting mines by giving them more time to do so.

The thing about Hunt through a minefield though is that I've never, ever had a mine detonated moving through a minefield on Normal or Slow.

Well, off to test some things I suppose!

Edited May 23, 2016 by Anthony P.

[Bulletpoint]

7 minutes ago, Anthony P. said:

The thing about Hunt through a minefield though is that I've never, ever had a mine detonated moving through a minefield on Normal or Slow.

I never had anyone set off any marked mines, as long as I used either of those three slow movement orders, but I haven't played that many missions with mines either. So it's possible you're right.

After all, I think HUNT is a bit faster than MOVE. I always assumed that the risk of stepping on mines was hard-coded to correspond to the type of movement, but if the game uses the actual speed of the moving team, then it could be that HUNT is more likely to trigger mines, despite being a very careful way to advance.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Bulletpoint

[Sublime]

Ive definitely had engineers spot mines in adjacent squares. Not only in squares theyre in.

[Anthony P.]

Well, I've made a small test mission. I can say a select few things about mines for now, the rest I'll leave for when I've made more conclusive tests.

 

The engineers in this case were set to Conscript, Normal motivation (though I doubt the latter matters in the context, unless there'd been a Suicidal level  )

*Hunt was not a safe way to traverse a marked minefield. I had two engineer teams attempt to cross the entire minefield with it (12x action squares deep, 12x wide), one lane each. Both teams started inside the minefield. The team that had their WP crossed 2 squares, and detonated a mine in the 3rd. The team that had one Hunt WP in every square made it until the 5th square before detonating a mine in the 6th. If this means that placing 1 WP per square makes Hunt somewhat safer I will refrain from asserting until I've run more tests, but it can at least be said that conscript troops can not cross minefields with Hunt.

*Normal and Slow was 100% safe way to cross the minefield for the Conscript Engineers. This was regardless of setting 1 WP per square or just 1 WP at the opposite end.

*Engineers (at least on Conscript level) can not detect mines in adjacent squares, not even after nearly 4 hours 15 minutes. Then again, Conscript level engineers are so atrociously bad that just moving one square into an unknown (that is, completely unknown. Not marked with either a green or a red warning sign) minefield without essentially playing Russian roulette, so again, it stands to be seen with better quality troops.

And here's the shocker, at least for me:

*Mark Minefield is not a safe way to cross a minefield! The Conscript engineers marking a friendly minefield (so, all squares were marked with red warning signs in advance) triggered multiple mines marking the field.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Anthony P.

[Erwin]

That has been my experience as well.  Maybe other players have simply been lucky.

[womble]

I've never had an engineer set off a mine while marking a field, even when they found the field the "hard way" and therefore marked it from within the danger zone. But then I've never used Conscripts to do it.

I've definitely had non-Conscript Engineers spot minefields (and then mark them) from adjacent ASs.

[Anthony P.]

Overall the Conscript engineers marking the mines was definitely something that had a good outcome (the ability to cross the minefield), it wasn't a matter of clearing it with their feet so to speak. It should be pointed out that this was 12 teams (i.e. 3-4 per team) marking a 12x12 square minefield (I've yet to come across a minefield this vast in CM outside of my own tests) from one end to the other. Roughly 6 casualties arose during the clearing, so overall I'd say that even with such low quality engineers, you're quite unlikely to suffer casualties from mine marking per se in any practical circumstances.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Anthony P.

[Bulletpoint]

23 hours ago, Anthony P. said:

 

Well, I've made a small test mission. I can say a select few things about mines for now, the rest I'll leave for when I've made more conclusive tests.

The engineers in this case were set to Conscript, Normal motivation

 

Thanks for doing the tests, but I really think you shouldn't use conscripts. I've never even sen conscript level troops in my 3+ years of playing the game. They don't appear in any scenario or campaign I've played, and I wouldn't buy them myself in a quick battle. I recommend using regular level troops, they give a good indication of an "average" performance.

But maybe you chose conscripts to make them as clumsy as possible, in order to see if there was a tiny difference between normal, slow, and hunt orders? Based on your test, it seems there might be, but you'd have to run the same test a couple of times to make sure it's not just a statistical fluke

[Anthony P.]

Oh yeah, definitely won't settle for what the Conscript level troops can do. I'm just starting off with those and making my way up in the skill levels to figure out some things about them.

[Sublime]

Ive definitey seen conscript troops ESPECIALLY in  FB for the Germans. 

 

SPOILER

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Custers stand is an excellent example. Most of the several platoons you started with are 1 or 2 conscript units a green and maybe a regular. Theres one vet in the whole lot. Mind you get reinforcements.

[Bulletpoint]

12 hours ago, Sublime said:

Ive definitey seen conscript troops ESPECIALLY in  FB for the Germans. 

I was talking about CMBN. Obviously I haven't played CMFB for 3+ years

[Sublime]

You mean SF. FB is the very latest release. 

Or you meant FI

Edited May 28, 2016 by Sublime

[Bulletpoint]

3 hours ago, Sublime said:

You mean SF. FB is the very latest release. 

Or you meant FI

No, I meant FB..

[Sublime]

Combat Mission final blitzkrieg was released this spring? Not even steve and charles were playing it 3 years ago.

[Michael Emrys]

5 hours ago, Sublime said:

Combat Mission final blitzkrieg was released this spring? Not even steve and charles were playing it 3 years ago.

I think that is kind of his point. I had to read it twice before I got it. The wording is a little tricky although correct and at first I misunderstood it the way it looks like you have. Another way to have worded it that would have been more clear might have been, "Obviously I haven't been playing FB for three years since it hasn't been out that long." English is funny that way.

Michael

[Sublime]

Oops yes sorry.

BN i think a lot of that man is Normandy really didnt have many " conscript" troops.

Play the MG module and tell me how you make out with the Kriegsmarine or Luftwaffe troops. The Kriegsmarine are worse than the damned Syrians. And Im only talkng about willingess to stand and fight.

 

 

 

**of course you have the famous German static and Ost divisions. Those could often be considered conscript. However for whatever reason you really will not see any designers make battles with them ( probably because most battles were " look americans or brits or allies!(in one of 20 languages not German) and a surrender or switching of sides)

In QBs who wants to have a company of conscript "russian ost battallion inf with maybe a 76(r) and THATS IT vs a combined arms Allied force of green^regs or regs and vets?

Edited May 29, 2016 by Sublime

[Anthony P.]

Do Kriegsmarine and Luftwaffe infantry units even have engineers?

[Sublime]

Tbh I dont know. Ive never willingly took them on a qb and havent explored their TO&Es.  Id expect the Luftwaffe units to be more likely to have them than Kriegsmarine because as far as I know Luftwaffe ground units started popping up in Russia and elsewhere in the late 42/43 range but Ive only heard of Kriegsmarine infantry units in end of war stories that generally take place if not in Germany pretty close to it. (Except perhaps a few sub pen bases..?)