Any way to control which soldier fires from a single window?

[Bulletpoint]

I have a German team in a building that only has one single window. The team has a machinegun, but they don't use it. Only one soldier is firing from the window, and he has a rifle. Any way to make the machinegunner do his job?

Edited April 1, 2016 by Bulletpoint

[mjkerner]

No specific way that I have ever found, but have you tried re-facing commands? That usually solves related types of problems (like getting all of your AT crew to position within fortifications).

[Bulletpoint]

I'm playing around with facing commands, but so far no luck... I wonder if there is any "trick" to this.

[A Canadian Cat]

I don't think there is a trick.  One thing that might help is splitting teams (and getting non MG teams off that floor) - having a smaller number of guys on that floor might help find a facing where the MG will be the one firing.

[Bulletpoint]

I already split the squad, so it's just the MG team there. Would be nice if they shuffled around automatically to let the best gun fire at spotted targets.

[General Jack Ripper]

On ‎4‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 10:46 AM, Bulletpoint said:

I already split the squad, so it's just the MG team there. Would be nice if they shuffled around automatically to let the best gun fire at spotted targets.

That's one of my major pet peeves as well. It doesn't help that when moving an MG team, the gunner is often the last one to get up and move, as a result, all the "best" places in their destination are already occupied by team members.

MG deployment is something I've been mad at for a long time. Personally I think any soldier labeled "Gunner" should have the highest priority in placement within an action spot, with whoever has binoculars taking second place.

[Michael Emrys]

1 hour ago, SLIM said:

It doesn't help that when moving an MG team, the gunner is often the last one to get up and move...

Perhaps the assumption is that he needs to fiddle with his weapon a bit before he can take off?

Michael

[General Jack Ripper]

52 minutes ago, Michael Emrys said:

Perhaps the assumption is that he needs to fiddle with his weapon a bit before he can take off?

Michael

That's understandable. I would prefer the whole team "Waiting" for a few seconds until everyone is ready to move, but that's just nitpicking.

It's a good thing we've come down to complaining about such small details these days, it's a good sign there are no more major problems with the game engine.

Eventually we'll get down to the "M1 Garand with Grenade Launcher soldier uses a bolt-action rifle firing animation, and that makes me angry!"

Then, we'll officially know there's nothing left to talk about.

[Warts 'n' all]

"fiddle with his weapon".. Good to see that the art of the double entrendre is alive and well. Ronnie Corbett must be having a chuckle in comedy heaven.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Warts 'n' all

[Michael Emrys]

I live for good double entendres.

Michael

[womble]

My gut feeling (on which I currently base my SOP) is that if you give the team in question a Target order on their terminal waypoint in the direction you want them to be pointing their LMG, the LMG will usually set up in a position to act on that order. The same seems to apply to a narrow Target Arc, and I'd assume also to a Face command, but I so rarely want to use a Face command the first minute the team arrives in position, that I don't have what I consider a good handle on whether it really works.

I also believe that if a target appears in a direction the team can't apply much firepower, and their Target Arc permits, they'll rearrange themselves on their own initiative to engage that target with their best weapons. I have certainly seen teams reorient themselves within buildings without being told to, once they've actually got something to shoot at.

[Bulletpoint]

9 minutes ago, womble said:

My gut feeling (on which I currently base my SOP) is that if you give the team in question a Target order on their terminal waypoint in the direction you want them to be pointing their LMG, the LMG will usually set up in a position to act on that order. The same seems to apply to a narrow Target Arc, and I'd assume also to a Face command, but I so rarely want to use a Face command the first minute the team arrives in position, that I don't have what I consider a good handle on whether it really works.

That's really surprising to me, as I always put a face command at the end of the movement path. Have I been doing something stupid all this time?

My intention has always been to make sure the team face the right way when they reach their destination.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Bulletpoint

[Michael Emrys]

48 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

That's really surprising to me, as I always put a face command at the end of the movement path. Have I been doing something stupid all this time?

My intention has always been to make sure the team face the right way when they reach their destination.

I hardly think it's stupid since I do the same thing sometimes. It depends on the situation. Without a face command, the unit will usually end a move facing in the same direction it was last traveling (exception: they will usually line up against a linear obstruction like a wall or a hedge).

Michael

[MOS:96B2P]

2 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

<Snip>  My intention has always been to make sure the team face the right way when they reach their destination.

At the terminal waypoint I have learned to use a short Target Arc in the direction I want the team to face.  This gets them facing the correct direction but keeps them from shooting before the entire team is in place and ready.  Especially if it is a weapon that also needs to be Deployed.  This is not perfect but it is the best way I know to get any team into position (fire team, LMG, HMG etc.).   

[Bud Backer]

2 hours ago, Michael Emrys said:

I hardly think it's stupid since I do the same thing sometimes. It depends on the situation. Without a face command, the unit will usually end a move facing in the same direction it was last traveling (exception: they will usually line up against a linear obstruction like a wall or a hedge).

Michael

Ok, and I thought it was just me kludging something everyone else did better! LOL I do the very same thing.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Bud Backer

[LukeFF]

10 hours ago, SLIM said:

Eventually we'll get down to the "M1 Garand with Grenade Launcher soldier uses a bolt-action rifle firing animation, and that makes me angry!"

Well, that's actually modeled correctly.  The Garand could not fire in semi-auto when fitted with a grenade launcher.

[Baneman]

12 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

That's really surprising to me, as I always put a face command at the end of the movement path. Have I been doing something stupid all this time?

I'm with Bulletpoint here - for me a movement command will always end with a Face if they're not getting a Target.

9 hours ago, MOS:96B2P said:

At the terminal waypoint I have learned to use a short Target Arc in the direction I want the team to face.  This gets them facing the correct direction but keeps them from shooting before the entire team is in place and ready.  Especially if it is a weapon that also needs to be Deployed.  This is not perfect but it is the best way I know to get any team into position (fire team, LMG, HMG etc.).   

Beware - I have found that the arc only kicks in when the last team member arrives. So early arrivers may still give away their position by banging away with their rifles until the slowpoke arrives and the arc takes effect.

When it really matters, I give an arc at the 2nd last waypoint ( I can then override it with a more precise one at the final waypoint ).

I discovered this when sneaking a schreck team into position once with a beautiful Cover Armour Arc at the final destination. Only to have it all given away by the loader who took some potshots at nearby enemy before his slower-crawling buddy could get there.

[womble]

14 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

That's really surprising to me, as I always put a face command at the end of the movement path. Have I been doing something stupid all this time?

My intention has always been to make sure the team face the right way when they reach their destination.

Ah. I rarely use Face, but I almost always give a Target Arc with its midpoint where I'd otherwise lay a Face line. I tend not to want to open up on any spotted non-buttoned-armour which should happen to be visible at the point the team arrives in its firing position, so the TA is short, for self-defense purposes only.  The TA gets them oriented in the right direction.

I'll use Face when I'm rushing to achieve an ambush or some such, where I've got a good idea of what the team will be able to engage when it gets there, and when I want them to engage with minimal delay, and not risk the anticipated targets ending up lying just outside any restrictive TA I might issue.

[womble]

2 hours ago, Baneman said:

Beware - I have found that the arc only kicks in when the last team member arrives. So early arrivers may still give away their position by banging away with their rifles until the slowpoke arrives and the arc takes effect.

When it really matters, I give an arc at the 2nd last waypoint ( I can then override it with a more precise one at the final waypoint ).

Absolutely. My SOP when sneaking up into a firing position is to give a short, circular TA at the last non-Slow WP, with a segment TA at the terminal WP, to orient the team "as the team leader considers most appropriate". The diameter of the TA will vary, depending on how sure I am of what's the other side of the concealment the team is sneaking up behind; it will generally be deep enough to allow imminent surprise threats to be engaged if there might be any surprises, or very short indeed if there are known distant heavy calibre threats.

[A Canadian Cat]

2 hours ago, womble said:

Absolutely. My SOP when sneaking up into a firing position is to give a short, circular TA at the last non-Slow WP, with a segment TA at the terminal WP, to orient the team "as the team leader considers most appropriate". The diameter of the TA will vary, depending on how sure I am of what's the other side of the concealment the team is sneaking up behind; it will generally be deep enough to allow imminent surprise threats to be engaged if there might be any surprises, or very short indeed if there are known distant heavy calibre threats.

For sneaking scouts into position I often do the same.  Most of the time though I try to align my last movement in the direction I want them to be facing so I do not need to use a cover arc and can stick with the cover circle.  But if that cannot be done then this is the way I'll get them facing the direction I want.  Usually I'll use a near 180 deg arc to cover the most possible and switch it back to a circle once they are facing the desired direction.

 

5 hours ago, Baneman said:

Beware - I have found that the arc only kicks in when the last team member arrives. So early arrivers may still give away their position by banging away with their rifles until the slowpoke arrives and the arc takes effect.

That is an interesting tidd bit. I suppose I have never noticed because teams that I want to have a cover arc on usually already have one before they get to the end of their movement orders.

 

16 hours ago, Michael Emrys said:

I hardly think it's stupid since I do the same thing sometimes. It depends on the situation. Without a face command, the unit will usually end a move facing in the same direction it was last traveling (exception: they will usually line up against a linear obstruction like a wall or a hedge).

Ending the movement in the direction I want them to face is my SOP.  When teams end up in a building though I usually give them a face command because it is not really clear after going up a few floors what direction they might end up facing.

[womble]

55 minutes ago, IanL said:

For sneaking scouts into position I often do the same.  Most of the time though I try to align my last movement in the direction I want them to be facing so I do not need to use a cover arc and can stick with the cover circle.  But if that cannot be done then this is the way I'll get them facing the direction I want.  Usually I'll use a near 180 deg arc to cover the most possible and switch it back to a circle once they are facing the desired direction.

Aye, and moving into position via a displacement perpendicular to the linear obstacle you're planning to hide behind helps keep your bods from creeping about too much where they can be seen. Often this is sufficient to determine facing, but I've been convinced that at least MG teams behave more consistently if they've got a firm direction to shape up in, so it's SOP for all elements. And yes, they'll get a more aggressive and probably circular TA in the orders phase after they arrive on the firing step.

 

55 minutes ago, IanL said:

That is an interesting tidd bit. I suppose I have never noticed because teams that I want to have a cover arc on usually already have one before they get to the end of their movement orders.

It's a thing that has tripped me up on occasion, and well worth making sure you consider. Creeping into a quiet observation spot and ceasing fire is not as good a way of staying hidden as not giving away your position in the first place.

55 minutes ago, IanL said:

Ending the movement in the direction I want them to face is my SOP.  When teams end up in a building though I usually give them a face command because it is not really clear after going up a few floors what direction they might end up facing.

Aye, it seems pretty random, and here again I tend to use TAs rather than Face.

[MOS:96B2P]

5 hours ago, Baneman said:

<Snip> Beware - I have found that the arc only kicks in when the last team member arrives. So early arrivers may still give away their position by banging away with their rifles until the slowpoke arrives and the arc takes effect.  <Snip>   

Excellent point.  

3 hours ago, womble said:

Absolutely. My SOP when sneaking up into a firing position is to give a short, circular TA at the last non-Slow WP, with a segment TA at the terminal WP, to orient the team "as the team leader considers most appropriate". <Snip> 

This is a very useful TacSOP.  The Slow movement command on the last short leg of the movement works well and made me remember something I noticed about the Hide and Deploy commands.  I have been attempting (most of the time successfully) to Slow a team into the last waypoint and Hide the team with the above discussed short Target Arc wedge.  Then in theory, when everything is set, cancel the hides and drop the Target Arcs. I recently noticed that when it is a team with a crew served weapon the Deploy and Hide will not work together at the same waypoint on the same turn. The Deploy command seems to cancel the Hide even though both Deploy and Hide toggles will highlight during the command phase.  (For awhile I thought I was just forgetting to hit Hide.) So now, when it is still relevant, I come back the turn after deployment is complete and order the unit to Hide.       

[General Jack Ripper]

11 hours ago, LukeFF said:

Well, that's actually modeled correctly.  The Garand could not fire in semi-auto when fitted with a grenade launcher.

Darn it. Scratch one thing off the "nitpick" list. There's not much left on it now.

[Childress]

With CM2 troops entering a room expand out to the walls. I seem to recall that in CM1 the player could re-position soldiers within in the room, for example moving back from the windows, useful for reducing visibility or laying a trap against entering enemies. Result: more micro management. Could be mistaken, tho'.

[Michael Emrys]

12 minutes ago, Childress said:

I seem to recall that in CM1 the player could re-position soldiers within in the room, for example moving back from the windows, useful for reducing visibility or laying a trap against entering enemies.

I can't recall what the situation was in CMx1, but I do believe that you can do that now if the building is large enough to permit it. All it requires is to occupy more than one AS, then move your troops to the back of the room. I don't know if that prevents them from being seen from outside.

Michael