Russian army under equipped?

[Haiduk]

8 hours ago, John Kettler said:

I'm going to risk worsening that state by asking you this: Who in the US bought the T-64s? US government or private purchaser/s?

Regards,

John Kettler

Not T-64, but T-84. Government, of course. Common US practic to buy some weapon examples in different countries for its assessment. Four T-84 were bought in 2003, but Ukrspetsexport sold them by documents as T-80UD (early T-84 really was slightly modified T-80UD - last party of T-80UD for Pakistan indeed was hybrid T-80UD and T-84). All came to Aberdeene training center, Maryland, part of them have soviet experimental APS "Drozd". I heard, that money for this contract were spent also on "Nozh" ERA development.

[Kinophile]

Im curious why the BTR-4 doesn't have ERA. Or, it seems, any of the UKR BMP2s.

I'd consider the BTR-4 as easily the most capable UKR IFV (in game). Almost a Bradley-lite in that it can take on a T72 and win (with sensible positioning). 

Is it a weight issue? Or availability of ERA?

Edited July 2, 2016 by kinophile

[Haiduk]

2 hours ago, kinophile said:

Im curious why the BTR-4 doesn't have ERA. Or, it seems, any of the UKR BMP2s.

I'd consider the BTR-4 as easily the most capable UKR IFV (in game). Almost a Bradley-lite in that it can take on a T72 and win (with sensible positioning). 

Is it a weight issue? Or availability of ERA?

Wheight issues - yes. But main problem - adopted types of ERA too powerful for thin armor of BTR or BMP and can crack armor after initiation. "Microtec" designers propose lite variant of "Nozh" ERA for light armor - "Nozh-L", which can mount itself in boxes from old "Kontakt-1" ERA. But here we again encounter with problems - MoD can order only adopted equipment. For "Nozh-L" initial party, tests and adopting need a money. State doesn't funding this program - until huge quantity of "free" old "Kontakt-1" in storages, MoD officials think, that no need in newest types of ERA. Also we lost Donetsk state chemical factory (destroyed by several hits of UKR shels in HE storages), which produced HE for ERA blocks, and production capabilities of "Microtec" are too small. Thus, our light armor potect itself against HEAT shells only by cage armor.

Edited July 2, 2016 by Haiduk

[ikalugin]

What would you like to see in an article (in eng) about Ukrainian Armed Forces equipment procurement (2014-2016) and R&D?

Edited July 5, 2016 by ikalugin

[Kinophile]

Everything :-)

But in seriousness, if I personally were to prioritize  -

 1) current state of MBT fleet,  replenishment efforts and future intended state. 

2) Artillery status, replenishment, future format (eg what balance of tube/rocket) 

3) UAV fleet -  harmonization? Integration with ground and fire support? Counter-drone efforts? Survival v RUS EW? 

4) Comms  -  procurement/development of modern systems? Indigenous efforts?  Counter/defence v. Russian EW? 

5) NATO training -  effective? Becoming mainstream?  (ie UKR trainers now training UKR troops in NATO style? Is this affecting what equipment they call for?  Is the token US/Brit gear actually useful and more called for or are UKR focusing on expanding current post-soviet stocks ? Are NG effectively most modernized force,  albeit a light Infantry one? Are they up-gunning to Arny grade of brigade level heavy weapons? 

Millions of questions  :-)

Edited July 6, 2016 by kinophile

[ikalugin]

Ok, I would look into it.

On a separate note. Remember how Iskander-M next year replaces last Tochka-U in the missile BDEs? I wonder where the launchers and Tochka-U stocks would go, considering how Ukraine's BMD capabilities are marginal at best.

Here is the table for how many (Tochka, not Tochka-U) missiles you need to destroy typical targets:

Edited July 6, 2016 by ikalugin

[Haiduk]

Hm... I better will wait an article and then will comment or add. Very huge massive of questions and too short of time for long posts :). But discussion better to continue in the topic about UKR ground forces

 

[ikalugin]

9 minutes ago, Haiduk said:

Hm... I better will wait an article and then will comment or add. Very huge massive of questions and too short of time for long posts :). But discussion better to continue in the topic about UKR ground forces

 

I don't plan to monitor other topics. So if you plan to discuss something with me, please either do it here or in PMs.

[Kinophile]

3 hours ago, ikalugin said:

I don't plan to monitor other topics. So if you plan to discuss something with me, please either do it here or in PMs.

I can copy it over, no problem. I know this is theoretically a Russian army thread but I doubt anyone will complain about extra info re the UKR forces. 

So work away, my friend. 

[ikalugin]

I am working on it, but sadly the progress is slow.

Meanwhile:

http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/3430116

Russia is forming another motorised rifle division, now in Smolensk area. It would be a part of 1st Grds Tnk Army (which already has 2 divisions - 1 MRD and 1 TD), construction of basing fascilities and formation are set to be completed by the middle of the next year. The division would have 3 MRRs 1 TR 1 AR 1 ADR and other assets. The division follows the patern of 2 other divisions which are being formed - in Rostov and Voronezh areas, those would have their basing and formation completed by December, 2016.

(there were additional units and formations formed elsewhere, but those 3 are directly relevant to CMBS)

[Kinophile]

To clarify for myself, these are entirely new, bootstrapped divisions, or a reorganization of existing troops (augmented by new men)? 

[ikalugin]

10 minutes ago, kinophile said:

To clarify for myself, these are entirely new, bootstrapped divisions, or a reorganization of existing troops (augmented by new men)? 

This is uncertain. There are two possibilities - either a single BDE has been expanded into a Div or an all new Div has been formed. Either way it is about expanding overall force vs re organising it within the same manpower or equipment pool. What we do know for sure is that the new divisions would use new basing fascilities and thus, in my opinion, they would be most likely all new formations.

If I find out, I would reflect it in my article about Russian Armed Forces expansion.

Interesting note, the 3 new units (there are 4 divisions in formation, with 1 TD in Center - Chelyabinsk area but that TD is known to be expanded out of a tnk BDE) need a lot of new equipment, ~650 in tanks alone.

p.s. in manpower terms, if a BDE is expanded into a Div, we are talking about atleast ~50 percent growth (from under 4.5k to 10k).

Edited July 6, 2016 by ikalugin

[Kinophile]

5 hours ago, ikalugin said:

This is uncertain. There are two possibilities - either a single BDE has been expanded into a Div or an all new Div has been formed. Either way it is about expanding overall force vs re organising it within the same manpower or equipment pool. What we do know for sure is that the new divisions would use new basing fascilities and thus, in my opinion, they would be most likely all new formations.

If I find out, I would reflect it in my article about Russian Armed Forces expansion.

Interesting note, the 3 new units (there are 4 divisions in formation, with 1 TD in Center - Chelyabinsk area but that TD is known to be expanded out of a tnk BDE) need a lot of new equipment, ~650 in tanks alone.

p.s. in manpower terms, if a BDE is expanded into a Div, we are talking about atleast ~50 percent growth (from under 4.5k to 10k).

That's 100% growth,  ie double. 122% to be precise :-)

[ikalugin]

5 minutes ago, kinophile said:

That's 100% growth,  ie double. 122% to be precise :-)

Derp.

I really should sleep sometimes.

[Kinophile]

43 minutes ago, ikalugin said:

Derp.

I really should sleep sometimes.

Sleep is for the weak! 

[ikalugin]

38 minutes ago, kinophile said:

Sleep is for the weak! 

sleep management is a sighn of being a pro.

[ikalugin]

Meanwhile, as I get distracted by work and have little time to write up the articles:

"Знаковым учением в прошлом году стало СКШУ «Центр-2015». О его ходе и результатах в СМИ говорилось много, поэтому главком посчитал нужным лишь сообщить, что в ходе учения были сформированы из запаса 6 общевойсковых соединений в 14 субъектах Федерации. Три соединения из этого числа совершали марши на большие расстояния комбинированным способом (до 5 тысяч км)."

Old news, about the Center-2015 exercise.

6 units were formed from reservists. 3 of them marched for long distanced (up to 5000km).

 

[ikalugin]

Below you can find the first infographic, about Russian build up, ie new units, relocated units, expanded units. Although it is in Russian it uses standard NATO symbols, so it should be accessable to non Russian speakers:

http://de-la-mitrio.livejournal.com/297124.html

Further work is in progress, but slowly.

Feel free to ask any specific questions.

Edited July 25, 2016 by ikalugin

[ikalugin]

Heh, it got removed, here you go with the copy:

[Battlefront.com]

Thanks for your work!  It is nice to see all this information in one place on one map.

Steve

[Kinophile]

Interestingly,  your map shows almost nothing facing the Baltics... 

[Battlefront.com]

5 minutes ago, kinophile said:

Interestingly,  your map shows almost nothing facing the Baltics... 

I think the graphic only shows "new" information, not units which have not had any changes.  For example, the 76th Airborne is based in Pskov (next to the Baltics) and it's not marked on the map at all, yet we know it's there.

Steve

[VladimirTarasov]

I'm liking the formations of new units, we need to increase our ground forces count. 

[ikalugin]

1 hour ago, kinophile said:

Interestingly,  your map shows almost nothing facing the Baltics... 

This is because there was very little Baltics specific build up. The new stuff was:

- expansion of a motorised rifle regiment in a brigade, which is ongoing.

- formation of a new corps command for better C2.

Otherwise the infographic shows the change in posture.

p.s. there may be some inaccuracies in the map, as it was made out of open sources and a lot of stuff is still in progress. I would try to make a more comprehensive "Russian Armed Forces" map at some later point.

Edited July 27, 2016 by ikalugin

[Kinophile]

Copy,  thank you.