John Kettler Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) A real shock when I encountered the headline! If this is true, it is a profoundly negative development. http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/pro-moscow-rebels-ukraine-building-dirty-bomb-help-russian-scientists-1513667 Regards, John Kettler Edited August 12, 2015 by John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzersaurkrautwerfer Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Very doubtful. The shootdown of MH17 did enough damage to Russian efforts in Eastern Ukraine. Detonating a for real dirty bomb would bring the sort of consequences as to make whatever "progress" the Russians had made in dismembering the Ukraine moot. Also it has very limited military value (it's not like it's a bigger bomb, it just has follow-on area denial aspects and a higher incidence of effectively "died of wounds, 20 years later"). In terms of blackmail it's just...not really enough. I mean if you irradiated part of Kiev or something I can't imagine the war ending until either full-on Russian intervention (in support of nuclear terrorists because that won't totally and utterly make Russia a North Korea level pariah state), or a field of Russian insurgent skulls on spikes outside of the ashes of Donbass. It's worth remembering while Russian reporting is fairly devoid of truth, Ukrainian reporting should also be triple checked (especially when asserting fairly out there information). This is especially true with "big" claims. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antaress73 Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Nonsense 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Since the so-called 'rebels' (foreign terrorist gangs) are a pack of increasingly desperate psychos I'm not particularly surprised. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 IB Times is notoriously bad about just printing whatever rumor makes a good headline. Might as well go to the Weekly World News. They are at least more amusing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nidan1 Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 IB Times is notoriously bad about just printing whatever rumor makes a good headline. Might as well go to the Weekly World News. They are at least more amusing. Or the US State Department Information Office! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted August 12, 2015 Author Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) The story originated with The Times, which isn't at all in the same category as the Weekly World News. Whether or not The Times scored a scoop or instead glommed onto a "designer leak' I couldn't say, but the Ukraine Security Service is the same as the one which exposed then-DPR CIC Igor Strelkov as Igor Girkin (ex?) GRU/FSB colonel as a Moscow-controlled operative via COMINT from phone intercepts of calls between him and his handler. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/europe/article4514313.ece Regards, John Kettler Edited August 12, 2015 by John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Believe what you want. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VladimirTarasov Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 A real shock when I encountered the headline! If this is true, it is a profoundly negative development. http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/pro-moscow-rebels-ukraine-building-dirty-bomb-help-russian-scientists-1513667 Regards, John Kettler What for will they use this dirty bomb for? This is non-sense... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFF Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 C'mon guys, this is a Kettler post. In other words, not worth your time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rage Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 This is like Mercedes engineers helping Zimbabwe to build their first bicycle. Welcome to two weeks ago Kettler. This was an obvious fake initiated by creative writers over at SBU and disseminated through the most reliable intel source of modern times - social networks. Western media of course ate it with no questions asked, but just for one day, then dropping it like a hot potato due to its sheer idiocy the general lack of interest. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Western media of course ate it with no questions asked, Lol, not sure what you are reading and calling western media. I heard nothing about this until I saw this thread and I watch and read quite a bit of Western media 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzersaurkrautwerfer Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Western media of course ate it with no questions asked, but just for one day, then dropping it like a hot potato due to its sheer idiocy the general lack of interest. Concur with Ian, I've only seen it referenced on this forum, and in no western media outlets worthy of note. Additionally interesting in terms of mentioning western media as a monolithic organization. On the other hand, enjoy a fun lesson in the dangerous of "intercepted" phone calls (and the importance of good casting) https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/08/12/propaganda-watch-listen-to-two-russians-badly-impersonate-cia-spies-to-pin-mh17-on-u-s/?utm_content=bufferaf772&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 It looks like this story broke some time ago, but got picked up only recently in certain channels. Newsweek, for example, had not only already published the story, but updated it July 31, 2015. The piece contains a wealth of information far eclipsing what IB Times and The times (to the extent I could read it online) published. http://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-says-rebels-are-building-dirty-bomb-358885 InformNapalm, which does some very good OSINT, as seen here, in an analysis of the who, what, when and where of the movement of the Buk TELAR thought to be involved in the MH-17 shootdown, put out a short piece with very specific information on the storage site, including the street address, the name of the concern formerly operating there, a Google Earth overhead, a statement the area is not controlled and a discussion (with a rather alarming pic) showing the factory being shelled, with what appears to be a large secondary explosion resulting.https://en.informnapalm.org/nuclear-terrorism-and-the-dirty-bomb/ On the other end of things, SOTT.net published a withering piece on what IB, The Times and Newsweek had to say. the writer of it is not only not buying the story, but has blasted it as Western propaganda and specifically invokes warmongering. http://www.sott.net/article/299772-SOTT-Exclusive-Dirty-bomb-in-the-making-SBU-uncovers-yet-another-sinister-Russian-plot And, yes, the Russians have repeatedly shown they can be remarkably inept when conducting black propaganda ops. In the case cited, it's clear they didn't watch "Wag the Dog" to gain the proper appreciation for how to do this sort of stuff. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Could easily be black propganda from Russia/rebels similar to rumours UK put out about 'Burning Seas' from a small acorn of truth in 1940 that bounced around Europe and ended up getting published as consequences of any invasion attempt across the Channel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum_Warfare_Department#Burning_seas All JK is doing is regurgitating disinfo from some quarter 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinaldi Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 (edited) ...and this relates to Black Sea, how? Seriously, click-bait silliness like this is just begging for a whirlwind of crank politics, pseudo-evidence and loud screaming. Edited August 13, 2015 by Rinaldi 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 It looks like this story broke some time ago, but got picked up only recently in certain channels. Newsweek, for example, had not only already published the story, but updated it July 31, 2015. The piece contains a wealth of information far eclipsing what IB Times and The times (to the extent I could read it online) published. http://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-says-rebels-are-building-dirty-bomb-358885 Regards, John Kettler John this is just another example of what people continue to critique in your ability to parse information. Newsweek is owned by IBT. It is the SAME source. Newsweek's reputation is also just above that of the weekly world news. Actually a fairly sad story of what used to be a decent publication. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newsweek 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 sburke, Thanks for the info! Never having looked into it, I had no idea Newsweek was owned by IBT. Completely agree the tale of Newsweek is pretty sad. I have enough challenges trying not to continue to lose massive ground on just who owns what in the defense sector and maybe add to my knowledge base there. Other than things like the Rupert Murdoch nightmare, I generally have very little awareness, or frequently interest, in media stuff, barring mega mergers, happily, blocked, of the Time Warner-Comcast sort, of course. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocal Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 A real shock when I encountered the headline! If this is true, it is a profoundly negative development. http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/pro-moscow-rebels-ukraine-building-dirty-bomb-help-russian-scientists-1513667 Did it ever occur to ask yourself why they would use an objectively inferior, but still politically ruinous, dirty bomb rather than just having the Russians sling actual nukes? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VladimirTarasov Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Did it ever occur to ask yourself why they would use an objectively inferior, but still politically ruinous, dirty bomb rather than just having the Russians sling actual nukes? Either scenario is extremely crazy, Would never happen. Donetsk People's Republic gains nothing from it other then being the second nation to nuke another country. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotte Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 There is however a certain power in threating to detonate it somewhere to bring about negotiations on "better" terms. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzersaurkrautwerfer Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Either scenario is extremely crazy, Would never happen. Donetsk People's Republic gains nothing from it other then being the second nation to nuke another country. Donestsk is neither a nation, nor a dirty bomb strictly a nuclear weapon. There is however a certain power in threating to detonate it somewhere to bring about negotiations on "better" terms. It also knocks a lot of people off the fence. There's doubtless some Ukrainians who really don't care what happens in the eastern part of their country and the war indirectly affects them at best. You place them under threat of all sorts of radiological funtimes, and their opinions will doubtlessly change for the worse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VladimirTarasov Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Donestsk is neither a nation, nor a dirty bomb strictly a nuclear weapon. Your right, But I couldn't find another word for it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzersaurkrautwerfer Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 The US Army term for a dirty bomb would be a "radiological" weapon in that it uses radiation as the primary effect vs a nuclear reaction. This is now reflected in the change from the old NBC designation (nuclear, biological, chemical) to CBRN (Chemical, Biological, Radiological, Nuclear) given the possibility of dealing with dirty bomb contamination. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Speakup Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Either scenario is extremely crazy, Would never happen. Donetsk People's Republic gains nothing from it other then being the second nation to nuke another country. If any significant explosion went off in a Ukrainian city and there was either evidence, or Kiev claims of evidence of radioactive pollution in the blast area, DNR would find themselves on the "Axis of Evil" list. No doubt there would be a flurry of activity in the UN, with motions for intervention, probably by NATO forces, to remove the new international menace. Alternative CMBS backstory The Newsweek story is pure fantasy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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