LiveNoMore Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I was playing CMRT Carius at Malinava v1when I ran into this. A Russian T34 was spotted near a small farm compound. Three Tigers fired at it, scoring one hit. The T34 backed out of sight. Since I had already knocked out another T34 in the area I waited for it to continue backing. It did not reappear. I sent the crew from a destroyed Tiger to spot. They could not see it while standing in the adjacent building, the orchard behind or directly in front. However, the T34 could see them and they were killed by MG fire. So I blasted the adjacent building until it collapsed. Still no T34. Now I sent a Tiger to investigate. From all angles he could not see the T34. He blasted the area where the T34 should be, with no results. I was restricted from firing directly at the outhouse from all angles. Finally, I got tired and saved the game, then hit cease fire. The T34 had been imbedded itself into the outhouse and been immobilized. Is this a bug or an anomaly? http:// http:// 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketman Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Well, that looks really weird Must be a bug - and a really poor attempt of disguise The outhouse is a flavor object, right? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 LOL there are no below ground terrain features modelled in the game but the tank must be in the outhouse pit. No that's a bug. Do you have that saved game still? I'll PM you and we can get this logged. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Outhouse = Klingon cloaking device.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinrich505 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Stalin felt that tankers were taking waaay too many bathroom breaks by getting out of their tanks. STAVKA was only too happy to oblige with the perfect solution. The T-34/85/#2. Lend-Lease TP was greatly valued. What Stalin wants...Stalin gets.... Heinrich505 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
76mm Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Slightly amazed that no one has jumped in here yet in an attempt to justify this one, like most of the LOS "issues"... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) Slightly amazed that no one has jumped in here yet in an attempt to justify this one, like most of the LOS "issues"... ?? Is that a joke. Well I'll take it that way Sometimes it is pretty obvious things are screwy. Sometimes it take a lot of testing to find out what is wrong. Sometimes its just screwy expectations from us war gamers. Mostly it is the latter. Edited July 9, 2015 by IanL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Slightly amazed that no one has jumped in here yet in an attempt to justify this one, like most of the LOS "issues"... Really? THAT'S your contribution? First, I'll say that I think smoke may be off. So there. There's your attempt to "justify" this event. (I prefer "explain".) Second, I'll note that there IS a "?" contact. So, perhaps the dismounted crew can hear the T-34 but not see it? Third, I'll add that there are some LOS anomalies. The more savegames we get that show them, the sooner they can get solved. Fourth, I'll ask: are you still a'mazed? Ken (P.S. There are some GREAT LOS threads. Some describe the limitations, as they currently exist. This may fall under one of the types previously described. And, no, I don't think some of the limitations are "good", but I hope for improvement.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLSTK Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 (edited) Stalin felt that tankers were taking waaay too many bathroom breaks by getting out of their tanks. STAVKA was only too happy to oblige with the perfect solution. The T-34/85/#2. Lend-Lease TP was greatly valued. What Stalin wants...Stalin gets.... Heinrich505 No s*h*i*t Sherlock. (Just kidding...I couldn't help myself). Edited July 10, 2015 by BLSTK 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
76mm Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Really? THAT'S your contribution? Yes, and there is a lot more where that came from... Thanks for the smoke "explanation", I knew there had to be some rational explanation, there always is... Lighten up Francis. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 OK so I have looked at the file and reported the bug. No smoke involved. At first I wondered if the destroyed building was the "cause" but moving around the hiding T34 with a dismounted crew saw the same issue. What I found was you can get a clear blue LOS line right up to the outhouse and next to it (even past it) with no problems. But as soon as you check the AS where the out house is you get a no light of sight message. I am forced to conclude that my first guess was right the T34 is in the outhouse pit and totally protected from view. LiveNoMore, thanks for the report and the files - that was an odd one for sure. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
76mm Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Thanks for the update. Sounds rather weird indeed; I guess the outhouse is a flavor object? I don't recall reading about similar oddities with other flavor objects? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 I believe that it is a flavour object and I have never seen or heard about something like this either. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLSTK Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 I dare say the developers would be anything but flushed with pride over this little glitch. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASL Veteran Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 I think flavor objects are supposed to be destroyed when a vehicle runs over or into them. Flavor objects also only give either concealment or cover - I can't remember which. So if the flavor object only gives concealment then what is probably happening is that the vehicle somehow managed to enter the same location as the flavor object without destroying it. Once the flavor object and the vehicle are in the same location, the concealment provided by the flavor object is hiding the vehicle. That's my guess anyway. In case anyone isn't clear I'm not justifying the behavior as acceptable, I'm just giving my guess as to why things happened the way they did. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
76mm Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 (edited) I was a bit intrigued by this one, so decided to run a test: I set up four outhouses, and put SU-122s in two of them, and a BA-64 in a third. I then put four Stugs in various locations within 30-50 meters from the outhouses, with some facing directly towards and some away from them. The problem is readily reproducible--one of the SUs was visible, but the other, and the BA64, were not, even at these close ranges. Also, the Stugs could not target the outhouses which were hiding the vehicles. A Stug firing area fire at the base of the outhouse was able to destroy the BA64, although it never saw it. Interestingly, the BA64 could not see anything from "inside" the outhouse, even the Stug 30 meters to its front. I tried to attach the scenario file but the forum would not let me attach a btt file. There is also a smaller outhouse among the flavor objects, perhaps someone should try that next? Edited July 11, 2015 by 76mm 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 I'll add that tid bit too the report but i already linked this thread. It is probably good that the vehicle inside the out house cannot see out. That at least prevents gamey ticks. Feel free to play around but I doubt that more information will be needed to work on the issue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 I was a bit intrigued by this one, so decided to run a test: I set up four outhouses, and put SU-122s in two of them, and a BA-64 in a third. I then put four Stugs in various locations within 30-50 meters from the outhouses, with some facing directly towards and some away from them. The problem is readily reproducible--one of the SUs was visible, but the other, and the BA64, were not, even at these close ranges. Also, the Stugs could not target the outhouses which were hiding the vehicles. A Stug firing area fire at the base of the outhouse was able to destroy the BA64, although it never saw it. Interestingly, the BA64 could not see anything from "inside" the outhouse, even the Stug 30 meters to its front. I tried to attach the scenario file but the forum would not let me attach a btt file. There is also a smaller outhouse among the flavor objects, perhaps someone should try that next? Thanks for doing, and sharing, that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
76mm Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 It is probably good that the vehicle inside the out house cannot see out. That at least prevents gamey ticks. Note that only the BA64 couldn't see out, while the SU could, presumably because the BA64 is smaller. And one of the SUs could be seen, and see out, so it looks like vehicles must be positioned "just so" in the outhouse's, uh, sweetspot to become invisible. I am curious at this point whether other flavor objects, such as tires, wagons, etc. could have the same effect? Presumably it would have been noticed already, but... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
76mm Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 I ran a quick test with a handful of other flavor objects--shelters, telephone poles, carts, gardens, etc. with SUs and BA64s; none of the vehicles were hidden. While I'm not 100% certain that they wouldn't be hidden if I positioned the vehicles "just so", I moved them around a bit but couldn't get them to disappear. Very odd if this phenomenon is limited to outhouses? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Maybe the outhouse is a TARDIS if a T-34 can fit in it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Wasn't there an issue once, where a tank could hide behind a tree? And also one where tanks could be poking halfway out from behind a house, but still remain unspotted? I think the conclusion back then was that tanks have a central "hotspot" for determining LOS, so if the centre point of the tank is behind the house, you can't spot it. Likewise with this outhouse maybe? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 I don't remember the hidden by a tree thing but yeah there is a limitation around spotting of parts of vehicles. I'm not sure it it applies here. I am sure once Charles looks at it he will know if it is fixable or not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronCat60 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Hey if we gave a Sgt. York Anti-Aircraft system to the Germans that thing would lock on to the outhouse and blow the crap out of that T-34! Now wouldn't that be just Charmin! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jep Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) This may not be related to outhouse. I had similar problem where my tank could not see enemy tank even though these tanks nearly collided (yes it was hiding in forest but come on...). It feels like BF models optics but forgot to implement a "common sense algorithm". Something seems to be off with Black Sea too. You know how your fancy Russian armor does not see opponent no matter how visible it should be (short distance, shooting nearby units etc). Edited July 12, 2015 by jep 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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