MOS:96B2P Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Heinrich505 (AKA Torch ) posted an interesting screenshot (several actually) of flamethrowers in action at the below link. http://community.battlefront.com/topic/113260-rt-unofficial-screenshot-thread/?p=1606702 One of the screenshots raised the question, what happens if flamethrowers hit friendly troops. Friendly tank fire, bullets (.50 caliber and larger), rifle grenades and bazookas will kill and suppress friendly troops. Friendly fire smaller than .50 caliber will suppress friendly troops. What will flamethrowers do? Would they KIA and suppress or just suppress friendly troops. Below is the answer along with some screenshots. If anyone can offer a correction or additional information please do. The maximum engagement distance for the US M1A1 flamethrower, used in the experiment, is 44 meters or approximately five A/S. (Different from the CMBN Vehicle Pack Manual which advises 36 meters or four action spots. However the correct distance is listed in the user interface) The US M1A1 flamethrower can fire up to 6 to 7 shots a minute with 12 shots total. The flamethrower will not fire on Target light. Instead the Team Leader will fire his M1 Carbine. The US M1A1 flamethrower will not KIA or even suppress friendly troops. I had the flamethrower team Target light to run the M1 Carbine out of ammo so it would not be a factor in any suppression. The range for hand grenades is three action spots (although and occasional odd one can land on the fourth action spot). However I used the flamethrower at the maximum range of five action spots so the hand grenades were not a factor. The 45 caliber pistol is only used after the flamethrower runs out of ammo. (Even on a very short, 9 meter, Target light the team did not use the pistol) M1 Carbine empty. Grenades and .45 will not be used. 3rd Section / B Team “volunteered” for the test. Their Suppression Indicator is clear at 03:52:00 Multiple direct hits from the friendly flamethrower have no effect. I also did an experiment with a Churchill Crocodile flamethrower tank. However there is no way, I am aware of, to make the tank fire just flame. It alternated firing the main gun or a machine gun with the flamethrower. I could not isolate the flamethrower. I believe the small amount of suppression in the below screenshot came from the MG which was also shooting. I think it is correct to say both man portable and vehicle mounted flamethrowers will not KIA or suppress friendly troops however supporting weapons fired with the Target command at the same time may. An even more interesting topic would be how this knowledge of the game mechanics can be incorporated into tactical standard operating procedures (TACSOP)s for the best in game use. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinrich505 Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 MOS, Very interesting test. Quite an eye-opener. Thanks for doing this. I can't imagine what you told them to get 3rd Section B Team to "volunteer" for this test. Were they sober at the time? I think those boys would be perfect for some testing of a secret weapon some call...Manhattan...sssshhhh. If they volunteered for this they can surely be called upon to volunteer to stand in the open - with protective glasses of course - and watch the "mushroom cloud" from up close....eeeek!! Again, very cool test. Heinrich505 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 I wish they would change this, as I prefer a more gritty game experience. In my opinion, flamethrowers should be lethal to everyone. At very high difficulty/realism levels, I would also like to see small arms fire being dangerous to friendlies, maybe even friendly fire against own units outside of command and control. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 I wish they would change this, as I prefer a more gritty game experience. In my opinion, flamethrowers should be lethal to everyone. At very high difficulty/realism levels, I would also like to see small arms fire being dangerous to friendlies, maybe even friendly fire against own units outside of command and control. I agree that flamethrowers should be working on the same rules as infantry HE. But making everything dangerous to friendlies would bork the AI even further without some significant improvements in its abilities, and would at the moment result in some less than desirable outcomes even with human-controlled troops, because those are being run by the TacAI, which is what couldn't, as things stand, cope with having to account for friendly small arms fire. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 I agree that flamethrowers should be working on the same rules as infantry HE. But making everything dangerous to friendlies would bork the AI even further without some significant improvements in its abilities, and would at the moment result in some less than desirable outcomes even with human-controlled troops, because those are being run by the TacAI, which is what couldn't, as things stand, cope with having to account for friendly small arms fire. I agree that changes to the game rules should be thought out to make sure that AI doesn't trip itself, but even so, I can't remember if I've seen any situations in which the AI was firing on locations with its own troops.. Only if I've rushed into an enemy trench, sometimes the second defensive line will fire at that position, but in that case, it's mayhem anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Backer Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 (edited) If they volunteered for this they can surely be called upon to volunteer to stand in the open - with protective glasses of course - and watch the "mushroom cloud" from up close....eeeek!! You've got it backwards. These guys ALREADY volunteered for that test. And though they came back looking the same, they're now mutants and can handle Flamethrowers no problem! Hence the results you see here... Edited May 16, 2015 by Bud_B 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlenklau Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Back in '44 in Bastogne, we paid the flamethrower operators to give us a short burst on cold nights! Hair grows back... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 I agree that changes to the game rules should be thought out to make sure that AI doesn't trip itself, but even so, I can't remember if I've seen any situations in which the AI was firing on locations with its own troops.. Only if I've rushed into an enemy trench, sometimes the second defensive line will fire at that position, but in that case, it's mayhem anyway. Yeah, but small arms fire is - IIRC - tracked from source to destination, which means that if your fire support position is behind your assaulting element then the assaulters are going to be constantly getting brassed up from behind. And even if they're off to a flank then the assaulters are still going to suffer fratricide as they approach the objective. While a human player can - with experience and practice and learning - mitigate that (and granting that there will be a LOT of complaints from new players), the AI's effectiveness will be significantly weakened. And the AI isn't that great to begin with. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMac Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 (edited) That's ok, a Friendly Infantry in the open ran directly in front of my M8 AC shooting Canister, but was not casualty ( maybe increased the squads suppression bar up one notch )...Instead that Canister Round KO'ed a German 50 yards behind in the woods. Joe Edited May 17, 2015 by JoMc67 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOS:96B2P Posted May 17, 2015 Author Share Posted May 17, 2015 That's ok, a Friendly Infantry in the open ran directly in front of my M8 AC shooting Canister, but was not casualty ( maybe increased the squads suppression bar up one notch )...Instead that Canister Round KO'ed a German 50 yards behind in the woods. Hmmm, I think 3rd Section / B Team just "volunteered" for another experiment. This time involving canister............ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinaldi Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 MOS I see you do these little experiments fairly frequently. Have you thought about taking a page out of Bil's book and compiling it in a blog or something similar? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOS:96B2P Posted May 17, 2015 Author Share Posted May 17, 2015 (edited) MOS I see you do these little experiments fairly frequently. Have you thought about taking a page out of Bil's book and compiling it in a blog or something similar? I am still learning the game mechanics and figuring things out. But thanks for the suggestion. It was good for my ego. My wife is going to find me insufferable for the rest of the day! You have an interesting looking avatar. I am curious, what war / theater was the photo taken in and what is the story behind it? Edit: womble is the one that should make a blog.......... Edited May 17, 2015 by MOS:96B2P 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Edit: womble is the one that should make a blog.......... First he needs and avatar 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOS:96B2P Posted May 17, 2015 Author Share Posted May 17, 2015 First he needs and avatar How about this one? I think it is a womble? Even has a clip board to keep notes on game mechanics. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinaldi Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 (edited) You have an interesting looking avatar. I am curious, what war / theater was the photo taken in and what is the story behind it? Honestly couldn't tell; my educated guesses are a staged photo in Tunisia or a Mojave training photo. Bunch of lads in Brodie Helmets tearing across sand in M3s; suited my tastes. Edited May 17, 2015 by Rinaldi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOS:96B2P Posted May 17, 2015 Author Share Posted May 17, 2015 Bunch of lads in Brodie Helmets tearing across sand in M3s; suited my tastes. Yes mine too. It looks cool. Nice choice for an avatar. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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