Modules with SS

[Ghost of Charlemagne]

Is it only the market garden module that contains SS formation?

Does SS units have a higher allocation of stg-44's than heer formations?

[Pak40]

I think SS formations were introduced in the Commonwealth module. Weapon allocation depends highly on each particular type of unit. I think there is some randomization from squad to squad, but in general the SS units are well equipped with the best automatic weapons such as the STG 44. Likewise, you will see FJ troops with the FG 42 mg. BF has done a very good job modeling the formations with their historical use of weapons.

[womble]

Weapon allocation depends highly on each particular type of unit.

And time period and equipment level assigned in the case of scenarios.

 

MP44 are a bit of a double-edged sword though, since they eat ammo at a heck of a rate and 7.92k is pretty scarce on the CM battlefield, generally.

[akd]

Weapon allocation depends highly on each particular type of unit. I think there is some randomization from squad to squad, but in general the SS units are well equipped with the best automatic weapons such as the STG 44.

 

They shouldn't be though.  Longstanding myth.  None of the Panzer Divisions were well equipped with MP44/StG.44, especially in comparison to Infantry / Volksgrenadier divisions.

Edited April 13, 2015 by akd

[Ghost of Charlemagne]

Thanks for your answers guys.

 

I have noticed the lack of 7,92K ammo In CM:RT as well. None of the supply trucks or halftracks have any.

[Ts4EVER]

Yes, generally speaking the Germans issued weapons according to TOE, not any notions of "elite". The vast majority of StG44s were used by Infantry divisions. the only Armored units with them were the Panzer Brigades raised in late summer 1944 (and then destroyed by Patton in Lorraine). Not SS though.

[GhostRider3/3]

Thanks for your answers guys.

 

I have noticed the lack of 7,92K ammo In CM:RT as well. None of the supply trucks or halftracks have any.

Strange, my supply trucks depending on which ones are in game carry 500rounds of the "K" ammunition.  Its possible to get the wrong supply trucks.  Some only carry HMG ammo, with Panzerfaust and Panzerschreck ammo.  Some carry a lot of 7.92 ammo, 9mm ammo with x2 Panzerfaust and the "K" ammo.  I believe there are 3 different supply trucks.  Also in creating scenarios as discussed earlier.  It really depends on how well they are outfitted, which can be adjusted.

[womble]

Strange, my supply trucks depending on which ones are in game carry 500rounds of the "K" ammunition.  Its possible to get the wrong supply trucks.  Some only carry HMG ammo, with Panzerfaust and Panzerschreck ammo.  Some carry a lot of 7.92 ammo, 9mm ammo with x2 Panzerfaust and the "K" ammo.  I believe there are 3 different supply trucks.  Also in creating scenarios as discussed earlier.  It really depends on how well they are outfitted, which can be adjusted.

Yeah, 500 rounds of k, and 10000 rounds of standard 7.92 Mauser... And 500 rounds of the short cartridge is less than 1 mag each for a platoon of SturmGrenadier. Might be okay if you've got 1 MP44 per squad.

[GhostRider3/3]

Yeah, 500 rounds of k, and 10000 rounds of standard 7.92 Mauser... And 500 rounds of the short cartridge is less than 1 mag each for a platoon of SturmGrenadier. Might be okay if you've got 1 MP44 per squad.

Yep, and there are less "K" rounds in the bunkers.  I know for the scenario I just finished, there are a total of 4 Supply trucks for the Germans.  2 of which have the K rounds, so about 1K rounds from the Supply trucks.  there is also one bunker but has minimal K rounds avail.  I thought this was appropriate as the Germans have around 2 Company's worth of troops and some scouts and pioneers.  Still would have to be used sparingly.  A 5 min firefight usually dwindles the MP40 and Stg44 ammo pretty good.

[Duckman]

It sounds like the game provides a good lesson on the advantages of ammo standardisation. Very realistic. :-)

[Ghost of Charlemagne]

On a second inspection I did find 3 trucks out of 20 trucks carried the aforementioned 500 7,92k rounds.

 

In CM:RT I think a begleitgrenadier squad of 12 men has the highest allocation of Stg-44s. Out of 20 squads I have one that has 3 stg-44s within the squad. Unfortunately they only carry 630 rounds between them. (Scenario takes place on 30th of September 1944, the latest possible date in this module)

 

Duckman, on 14 Apr 2015 - 2:23 PM, said:Duckman, on 14 Apr 2015 - 2:23 PM, said:

It sounds like the game provides a good lesson on the advantages of ammo standardisation. Very realistic. :-)

Indeed.

Edited April 15, 2015 by AtheistDane

[womble]

In CM:RT I think a begleitgrenadier squad of 12 men has the highest allocation of Stg-44s. Out of 20 squads I have one that has 3 stg-44s within the squad. Unfortunately they only carry 630 rounds between them. (Scenario takes place on 30th of September 1944, the latest possible date in this module)

In CMBN, with the MG module, you have entire companies of SturmGrenadiers armed with the things. At least their rides are supposed to be carrying k ammo though, since v3 or so. Haven't looked to check.

 

Edit: and now I have looked. A Sturmgrenadier squad of 8 MP44 has 1680 rounds to start with, and their 251/1 carries another 2k rounds. So they get one and a quarter full reloads each, which isn't bad, though they do rattle through the ammo summat chronic.

Edited April 15, 2015 by womble

[eniced73]

Just got ran over by a company of Strumgrenadiers in a QB.  Absolutely ridiculous what they did and with what ease.  The firepower is pretty much similar to Soviet SMG squads in CMRT.  My question is did these units really exist like this in real life and in what quantities?  Also, does anyone have any links to any real life accounts of these units on the battlefield.  Curious as to how they were used and preformed in real life.

Thanks

[womble]

No. BFC made them up. They're the German's "special unit" that's there to make the gameplay distinctive for that side.

 

Edit: maybe that should've had a sarcasm tag.

Edited November 5, 2015 by womble

[Bulletpoint]

No. BFC made them up. They're the German's "special unit" that's there to make the gameplay distinctive for that side.

Hm, that sounds a bit silly to me. I prefer to just use what was actually used in real life.

[Sublime]

He was being sarcastic..

[Ts4EVER]

They weren't common though, mostly used in the ill-fated Panzer-Brigade units.

[eniced73]

Thanks, I guess?  Sarcasm aside, does anyone have any information on these units?  If they are rare units I am a little confused on why Battlefront would include them into the game.  Were they used on a frequent basis?

[Ts4EVER]

Thanks, I guess?  Sarcasm aside, does anyone have any information on these units?  If they are rare units I am a little confused on why Battlefront would include them into the game.  Were they used on a frequent basis?

Well here is what I know:

The Germans raised a new type of organization in the summer of 1944: The Panzer Brigade. This was essentially an attempt to recreate the kind of ad hoc "kampfgruppen" that had proven so apt at destroying Russian tank spearheads in the fighting in late 1943 and early 1944. One example would be "Kampfgruppe Bäke", equipped with a mix of heavy tanks and motley support troops, which had broken out of an encirclement (either the Cherkassy Pocket or the Korsun Pocket, I forget). These Panzer Brigades were smaller than a normal Panzer Division and had no high level support units like artillery or reconnaissance. Just bare bones tanks and infantry in halftracks.

These were very well equipped, especially the first ones raised. They had Panther tanks and Panzer IV/70 tank destroyers as their main armored component. Their infantry used a somewhat unique organization: Usually armored Panzergrenadiers carred mostly K98k rifles, the MP40s and automatic rifles of the squadleader and his assistant and two MG42s for firepower. The Panzerbrigades were to have Sturmgrenadiers. These squads were equipped completely with Stg44 assault rifles (one of the few units where this was, to my knowledge, actually the case). They had no infantry crewed MGs for fire support: Instead they relied on halftracks with 2cm or 1.5cm triple guns for this kind of work + of course aa defense. These support elements were on company level, making these units very compact and easy to manage.

In the event they were not used as intended though, but hastily thrown into the western front, first in the counter attack at Lorraine. They found out the hard way that the Americans were better organized than the Russians and the tactics of the Eastern Front instead lead to high losses. Hasty training and bad planning also contributed. Quite an embarassing performance all things considered.

Some of the Brigades were later used in Holland, which is why you can find them in the Market Garden module.

[JoMac]

Just got ran over by a company of Strumgrenadiers in a QB.  Absolutely ridiculous what they did and with what ease.  The firepower is pretty much similar to Soviet SMG squads in CMRT.  My question is did these units really exist like this in real life and in what quantities?  Also, does anyone have any links to any real life accounts of these units on the battlefield.  Curious as to how they were used and preformed in real life.

Thanks

Well, with the possible over-modeling of Automatics, or Troops getting less of a Savings-Roll ( troops in RL take better cover, use of different formations, zig-zag, etc compared to CM ), it becomes fairly easy to get over-run.

Don't get me wrong, you will still get over-run, but actions should take a little longer. 

Joe 

Edited November 5, 2015 by JoMc67

[eniced73]

Thanks for the information guys.  I guess if you play with strict 'rarity' on you would only be able to buy a platoon of them in a average size game. 

[GhostRider3/3]

Thanks for your answers guys.

 

I have noticed the lack of 7,92K ammo In CM:RT as well. None of the supply trucks or halftracks have any.

If your creating scenarios or in PBEM.. try using Supply trucks.  Also Bunkers carry a little 7.92k ammo.

[Ts4EVER]

Thanks for the information guys.  I guess if you play with strict 'rarity' on you would only be able to buy a platoon of them in a average size game. 

That's not how it works. If the enemy force is a Panzer Brigade, they would operate with full companies or bataillons of them. It's not like you randomly attach a platoon from a different unit to a force.

[womble]

Sturmgrenadier squads (and their HQs) are "Rare" rarity, which is a x8 multiplier. So a Company costs a whole bunch of Rarity ('bout 5000), but that's including all its AA halftracks and organic transport. A dismounted platoon of StGr costs about 1000 Rarity (at Regular, Normal, 0) and there's only 2 of those per Company. How many you can afford in a "standard" game depends very much on your concept of "standard".

[eniced73]

That's not how it works. If the enemy force is a Panzer Brigade, they would operate with full companies or bataillons of them. It's not like you randomly attach a platoon from a different unit to a force.

yes.  That is how it works.  In an average size QB game you would not be able to purchase more than that.  If you have information on this unit getting used on a company level in real life, I would like to see it.  If these units were not actually combat used but just documented on a TOE that is what I am trying to learn about.