Spotting .... again ...

[Marc Anton]

What is wrong with spotting BF ? That is so absurd, i let the pictures speak.

These units are unable to spot tanks even when they SIT on them.

 

 

 

[mirekm61]

This is a difficult matter, a few times I wrote about it has always been an explanation that is ok, although the situation was absurd, as here. It's hard not to see the tank on 2-3 m even at night and rain.

[sburke]

The issue isn't that it can't see it.  The issue is that your CPU can generally handle only so much processing in the spotting cycles.  This leads to occasional issues where a unit should absolutely see another, but is is simply between cycles.  It does not happen all the time, but it is inevitable that it is going to happen once in a while.  The fix would bring your PC to it's knees and you wouldn't be able to play at all.  The alternative might be to limit the total number of units and map size down so they could up the spotting cycle, but I expect almost no one would want that even if it did eliminate the issue.  It just doesn't happen that often to pay such a draconian price all the time.

 

Maybe in 10 years we will all have the processing power that BF could do CMx4 without having to do spotting cycles at all.  Then we will probably complain that the battlefield doesn't have the correct smell for cordite and blood and someone needs to mod that.

[Marc Anton]

No No No its NOT "between the cycles" my units stood there for minutes without spotting anything. The panther who drove right into the T34 lost LOS as it droves back just 2m !!! This happens for all units on this map (it was a mission from "Iron Cross campaign") 

[Vanir Ausf B]

Pics are interesting. Save game files would be much better.

[womble]

Is "Smoke" on? Are Trees on? What's the weather? It's obviously nighttime, which makes things hard to target (remember that a Spot means they've IDed it well enough to shoot at it). As VAB says, put a savegame in dropbox and people will be able to see what's going on.

[sburke]

No No No its NOT "between the cycles" my units stood there for minutes without spotting anything. The panther who drove right into the T34 lost LOS as it droves back just 2m !!! This happens for all units on this map (it was a mission from "Iron Cross campaign") 

well I can't tell that with a couple screens shots.  As Vanir said, save would help quite a bit.

[Apocal]

The issue isn't that it can't see it.  The issue is that your CPU can generally handle only so much processing in the spotting cycles.  This leads to occasional issues where a unit should absolutely see another, but is is simply between cycles.  It does not happen all the time, but it is inevitable that it is going to happen once in a while.  The fix would bring your PC to it's knees and you wouldn't be able to play at all.  The alternative might be to limit the total number of units and map size down so they could up the spotting cycle, but I expect almost no one would want that even if it did eliminate the issue.  It just doesn't happen that often to pay such a draconian price all the time.

 

Maybe in 10 years we will all have the processing power that BF could do CMx4 without having to do spotting cycles at all.  Then we will probably complain that the battlefield doesn't have the correct smell for cordite and blood and someone needs to mod that.

 

The spotting cycle for units close to each other is lowered.

 

As a note, ~7 second spotting time is shortened when units are in close proximity. I think it can go down to ~1 second IIRC. Unfortunately wherever the line is drawn there is a possibility for something to crop up that should be treated the opposite way that it is.

[Toblakai]

The issue isn't that it can't see it.  The issue is that your CPU can generally handle only so much processing in the spotting cycles.  This leads to occasional issues where a unit should absolutely see another, but is is simply between cycles.  It does not happen all the time, but it is inevitable that it is going to happen once in a while.  The fix would bring your PC to it's knees and you wouldn't be able to play at all.  The alternative might be to limit the total number of units and map size down so they could up the spotting cycle, but I expect almost no one would want that even if it did eliminate the issue.  It just doesn't happen that often to pay such a draconian price all the time.

 

Maybe in 10 years we will all have the processing power that BF could do CMx4 without having to do spotting cycles at all.  Then we will probably complain that the battlefield doesn't have the correct smell for cordite and blood and someone needs to mod that.

 

You are talking about real time, aren’t you? Why not using the great benefit of a round based system?

 

P.S.

I know, one of my favorites themes  ...  

[Marc Anton]

 

clearly my favorite   And no guys, it has nothing to do with, "trees or smoke on"  (WTF) or time of the day or weather or or or the phase of the moon ....

And, in case there comes a question, yes there IS a enemy tank "somewhere" around 

 

And here is the savegame: http://www.file-upload.net/download-10461108/The-Cross-of-Iron-070.rar.html

[sburke]

Thanks Marc. Will download and take a look later tonight.

[womble]

it has nothing to do with, "trees or smoke on"  (WTF) or time of the day or weather or or or the phase of the moon ....

 

 

Oh of course, we should know you're special and infallible and have never and will never overlook anything as simple as having special effects turned off. Jeez, just trying to help and you come with the "WTF" attitude. Nice. "WTF", right back atcha, "buddy".

[Marc Anton]

womble turning trees on or off, turning smoke on or of has nothing to do with the ability to spot units or not ??!! It just a fx effect like roofs on or off, seriously i have no idea what you mean

[PhilM]

What Womble means by trees and smoke is that they are always "there" for your troops' spotting - thus possibly limiting spotting severely - but if you turn them off as the player then you cannot see that those degrading factors are present. So you may think your troops have a clear LOS, because you cannot see what is actually blocking their in-game LOS.

 

May not be the issue here, but it has been the case (ask me how I know ... ) that explains some odd spotting issues.

[Marc Anton]

ah understood, but no, thats not the issue here     

[sburke]

I hit the link and your file is apparently set as part of an executable by your site.  I am perfectly willing to download a RAR file and unpack it.  I am not so willing to trust an executable by a site I don't normally use.  I'll PM you, can you email me the file?

Edited March 24, 2015 by sburke

[Bulletpoint]

You are talking about real time, aren’t you? Why not using the great benefit of a round based system?

 

P.S.

I know, one of my favorites themes  ...  

 

This.

 

WeGo is also a nice challenge, because you need to plan ahead, and can't turn on a dime if something goes wrong.. I like that.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Bulletpoint

[sburke]

Got scenario (thanks Marc)  The Max effective LOS is 40 meters.  In other words it is pitch dark, pitch pitch dark, like moonless horror movie evil monster dark.  Now that max effective distance is once you know something is there at all.  So you have an extremely poor visibility scenario to begin with.  Am I surprised at the results.  No not really.  I can't even submit this to BF as they'd probably take away my super secret beta tester decoder ring.  It isn't even a question of armor spotting, infantry can't see crap either.

[Toblakai]

Max effective LOS of 40 meters in this scenario at night? 40 meters LOS at nighttime is very much.

I won’t say that it's very dark. Rather full moon and a new secret weapon  

 

[Toblakai]

This.

 

WeGo is also a nice challenge, because you need to plan ahead, and can't turn on a dime if something goes wrong.. I like that.

 

Yes, mate, that’s why I love the pbem turn-based system of CM   After you have made your turn there’s no way back!

[sburke]

Max effective LOS of 40 meters in this scenario at night? 40 meters LOS at nighttime is very much.

I won’t say that it's very dark. Rather full moon and a new secret weapon  

That is 5 AS that is the max a unit can be spotted at. In CM standards basically if you aren't firing it is near impossible to see you.

[Toblakai]

That is 5 AS that is the max a unit can be spotted at. In CM standards basically if you aren't firing it is near impossible to see you.

 

Thanks for answering, but what means "AS"?

[Baneman]

AS is Action Spot - the 8m x 8m squares that the map is divided up into ( the squares that highlight when you give infantry a movement command )

[Lt Bull]

That is an amazing save file!

 

This leads to occasional issues where a unit should absolutely see another, but is is simply between cycles.  It does not happen all the time, but it is inevitable that it is going to happen once in a while.

 

I and Marc must just be really unlucky then because every time I load up that save (maybe 15 times now) and tried stuff, like take a 10 man veteran team and plotted a fast/quick/move or slow path through the AS where the T-34 exists, they will only ever start spotting it (sometimes only temporarily) at least after they are literally occupying the same AS as the tank and even after the troopers start diverting their movement around the "unseen" tank and begin moving past it.  

 

I have not go them to spot the tank unless at least some of the team actually occupy the same AS and would be literally touching the tank.

 

If I create a string of way-points to form a square path around the AS with the tank in it (ie. it ends up being a 16m x 16m square path with the tank in the middle (there is a building in the way so i just make them walk back the other way) they still won't spot the tank.

 

I have also taken one of the unbuttoned good order veteran Panthers and plotted a SLOW movement path through the AS with the T-34 in it and it will only ever start spotting the T-34 after it has diverted it's movement around the "unseen" tank by which time the T-34 is now behind it.  The spotting of course disappears once the tank stops scraping the sides of the T-34 as it passes by it.

 

Good thing it's been said there is nothing wrong here and everything working as it should.  But hell I must be very unlucky with this spotting thing.

Edited March 27, 2015 by Lt Bull

[Toblakai]

AS is Action Spot - the 8m x 8m squares that the map is divided up into ( the squares that highlight when you give infantry a movement command )

 

Thanks for the explanation!

 

That is 5 AS that is the max a unit can be spotted at. In CM standards basically if you aren't firing it is near impossible to see you.

 

40 meters or 5 AS LOS, doesn’t matter how you call it, for me it's a lot at nighttime. If 5 AS distance would be too far to spot a unit, how would be the chance with 1 AS (good, moderate, poorly)?

 

That is an amazing save file!

 

 

I and Marc must just be really unlucky then because every time I load up that save (maybe 15 times now) and tried stuff, like take a 10 man veteran team and plotted a fast/quick/move or slow path through the AS where the T-34 exists, they will only ever start spotting it (sometimes only temporarily) at least after they are literally occupying the same AS as the tank and even after the troopers start diverting their movement around the "unseen" tank and begin moving past it.  

 

I have not go them to spot the tank unless at least some of the team actually occupy the same AS and would be literally touching the tank.

 

If I create a string of way-points to form a square path around the AS with the tank in it (ie. it ends up being a 16m x 16m square path with the tank in the middle (there is a building in the way so i just make them walk back the other way) they still won't spot the tank.

 

I have also taken one of the unbuttoned good order veteran Panthers and plotted a SLOW movement path through the AS with the T-34 in it and it will only ever start spotting the T-34 after it has diverted it's movement around the "unseen" tank by which time the T-34 is now behind it.  The spotting of course disappears once the tank stops scraping the sides of the T-34 as it passes by it.

 

Good thing it's been said there is nothing wrong here and everything working as it should.  But hell I must be very unlucky with this spotting thing.

 

One time I had the situation that a tank had run over an infantry unit and the infantry unit didn’t spot the tank