Targeting problems due to time passing during deployment

[Bulletpoint]

Just had a battle where I targeted some mortars manually (target light) during the deployment phase, at targets 1200 metres distant. Blue target lines indicated good visibility and lines of fire.

 

But when the battle started, none of the mortars fired.

 

Seems what happened was: Time of day is passing during deployment, but reset when you start the first actual turn. I had been looking at the deployment phase so long that the sun had come up. But since the mission starts before dawn, it's too dark to see at that distance. Result: target orders cancelled.

Edited March 1, 2015 by Bulletpoint

[A Canadian Cat]

Oh yeah that is a strange quirk of the game.  I remember once I left a setup turn running and when to bed.  When I came back to it it was pitch black.  Even then I did not occur to me that it might mean orders you gave would no longer be valid.  Bummer - I guess you have to wait a few turns an try again

[DaddyO]

Just had a battle where I targeted some mortars manually (target light) during the deployment phase, at targets 1200 metres distant. Blue target lines indicated good visibility and lines of fire.

 

But when the battle started, none of the mortars fired.

 

Seems what happened was: Time of day is passing during deployment, but reset when you start the first actual turn. I had been looking at the deployment phase so long that the sun had come up. But since the mission starts before dawn, it's too dark to see at that distance. Result: target orders cancelled.

 

Wait a minute. You're telling me that during deployment GAME real time (as opposed to game clock time remaining) runs along with the game player's REAL-LIFE real time while giving orders??? Am I understanding you correctly? Can others confirm this? It never occurred to me that it might, and I've never had anything transpire that might even hint at this.

[mjkerner]

Wait a minute. You're telling me that during deployment GAME real time (as opposed to game clock time remaining) runs along with the game player's REAL-LIFE real time while giving orders??? Am I understanding you correctly? Can others confirm this? It never occurred to me that it might, and I've never had anything transpire that might even hint at this.

Yes, I've had times when I left the game in Deployment Mode for long periods, and the game's day moves right along with mine.  Six hours later, it's nighttime in the game.

 

Oh, and it does go back to normal when the game starts, like Bulletpoint stated.

Edited March 2, 2015 by mjkerner

[mbarbaric]

that's weird

[mjkerner]

I am pretty certain I read either somewhere in the manual, or someone from BFC mentioning this back 4 years ago when CMBN first came out.  Or maybe even way, way back in regard to CMSF. I remember not being surprised when I first noticed it.

[womble]

Pretty sure it only happens in the setup phase, too. I've left orders phases after the first BRB-push up overnight, and they've not had the solar clock running while I was AFK.

It is pretty boggling though.

[c3k]

Yeah...

 

Here's how it works.

 

Game time 1700, setup phase. I start the game.

 

I tilt the camera up and watch the in-game sun. It slowly descends towards the west, and then the stars come out.

 

10 hours later, the game still shows 1700 (because the clock is stopped). However, my game screen shows that it is dark. Like, 0300 dark. Okay, because it IS 0300 in the game world.

 

You can stop a clock, but you cannot stop heavenly bodies from their movements.

 

Finally, I click "go". The game clock goes to 1700 + 1 micro-second and the sun repositions itself to its appropriate 1700 position. It is daylight. My guys, ordered to low crawl under cover of night, are ridiculously exposed and they all die. Like they always do...

 

 

The sun moves even when the clock does not...

[Pak40]

I've had this happen at setup as well. But I'm also wondering if 'Target Light' order with mortars even works at 1200 meters? Target light should tell a mortar team to only use it's personal weapons, but obviously at 1200 meters this is quite out of range for carbines and rifles, especially since there is specific coding for mortar teams not to use their personal weapons except at close range.

[General Jack Ripper]

New CMBN scenario: "Sundial Clock"

[womble]

Target light should tell a mortar team to only use it's personal weapons...

Not so. Target Light tells mortars to fire at a low rate. They shoot approximately 3 rounds per minute once they've zeroed in. This applies to 80-81mm of all nations, 2", 60mm M2, 50mm Gw36 and 47mm Brixia mortars. Some of those won't reach to 1200m, but the M2 and the medium mortars certainly will.

[DaddyO]

Not so. Target Light tells mortars to fire at a low rate. They shoot approximately 3 rounds per minute once they've zeroed in. This applies to 80-81mm of all nations, 2", 60mm M2, 50mm Gw36 and 47mm Brixia mortars. Some of those won't reach to 1200m, but the M2 and the medium mortars certainly will.

 

Interesting, didn't know this. There's always something to learn about this game. My problem is if some new fact comes into the front end of my brain, it seems like it pushes some old fact out the back end!

[Pak40]

Not so. Target Light tells mortars to fire at a low rate. They shoot approximately 3 rounds per minute once they've zeroed in. This applies to 80-81mm of all nations, 2", 60mm M2, 50mm Gw36 and 47mm Brixia mortars. Some of those won't reach to 1200m, but the M2 and the medium mortars certainly will.

 

Ah, thanks for the clarification.

[womble]

YW. I find it very much a useful way of parceling out the mortar love to my targets. Full fire rate just seems to empty the tube so quikcly, it's serious overkill.

[Migo441]

Along the lines of the "rotating earth" issue, another strange set-up experience I've had in Iron mode is when units out of C2 have memories of friendly unit positions which never (to my mind) truly existed.

What I mean is that I view the set-up phase in an abstract sense and not having a physical reality until the instant I press the button.  So when I place a HMG team in a certain location and then change my mind and place them elsewhere, I don't have the sense that they first set up in one spot and then physically packed up and moved to another; it was all in my mind.

But I noticed playing White Manor as the Germans that, once the scenario started, out-of-contact units showed ghostly fading partial contact icons of friendly forces in parade ground formation as placed earlier in the set-up process, i.e., there were no units in those locations when I finished my set-up, hit the button, and my concept of physical reality started.

Is that a real thing?  Am I losing my mind?

[poesel]

Time can not be stopped in the setup phase (and order phase) because else all animations would stop and that would look weird.

[Migo441]

Along the lines of the "rotating earth" issue, another strange set-up experience I've had in Iron mode is when units out of C2 have memories of friendly unit positions which never (to my mind) truly existed.

What I mean is that I view the set-up phase in an abstract sense and not having a physical reality until the instant I press the button.  So when I place a HMG team in a certain location and then change my mind and place them elsewhere, I don't have the sense that they first set up in one spot and then physically packed up and moved to another; it was all in my mind.

But I noticed playing White Manor as the Germans that, once the scenario started, out-of-contact units%2

[womble]

Time can not be stopped in the setup phase (and order phase) because else all animations would stop and that would look weird.

I don't think that's true. I've left orders phases overnight, as I said, and the sidereal clock hasn't changed, even though the wind is blowing the trees about.

[tankgeezer]

If you find yourself 'in the dark' while delaying setup, merely save the game & re-launch your save.  Voila! the clock is reset.

[Bulletpoint]

If you find yourself 'in the dark' while delaying setup, merely save the game & re-launch your save.  Voila! the clock is reset.

 

Problem is actually the opposite: the sun rises, and I don't realise that I'm giving impossible targeting orders. Not really delaying setup either, setting up just takes time.

[A Canadian Cat]

Problem is actually the opposite: the sun rises, and I don't realise that I'm giving impossible targeting orders. Not really delaying setup either, setting up just takes time.

Yeah, that would be a problem. The only thing I can think of is position everyone as you want them and then save and reload to reset the clock. Then give everyone targeting orders as you want. If that takes a while due to needing to move teams I guess rinse and repeat. A bit sucky for sure.

[Bulletpoint]

Well, it's not a big problem compared to some other things I would prefer BF work on, but it also seems like a fix should be pretty straightforward. *shrug*

[poesel]

I don't think that's true. I've left orders phases overnight, as I said, and the sidereal clock hasn't changed, even though the wind is blowing the trees about.

 

The clock won't change but the sun moves.

[womble]

The clock won't change but the sun moves.

Again, I did this just the other day: the sun did not move on my screen in the orders phase when I left it running while I slept. By "sidereal clock", I mean the game timer algorithm that determines the positions of the heavenly bodies including the Sun.

[poesel]

With 'orders phase' do you mean before or after 'done'?