dan/california Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 My pixel-truppen have a well developed sense of self preservation. They will hug the dirt like they mean it in wheat fields and such. Unfortunately this gives them an LOS of about three feet. Some way to influence this decision making would be nice. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eniced73 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 +1 on that. Has been a problem since day one. A troop "toggle stance" button would be nice to see over small bushes or grass. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketman Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 I've brought this up before. In CMBN for example, if they do this in tall grass/crop they see next to nothing. I would like a "Kneel and spot"-command. Some have suggested that you can give a movement command to the same action spot again, but I've found it less reliable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 It's a shame the TacAI can't tell its view from prone is obscured by long grass the same as it's obscured by a wall or hedge; it knows to kneel up to see over a wall. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 it would be nice if there was a stance option as I definitely don't want my troops kneeling in fields all the time, perhaps hide would make them go prone and not hiding would mean kneel. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 I admit that I haven't done a scientific survey of this issue (sorry), but I do recall seeing one or two guys in a team popping up onto one knee to take a quick look-see before dropping back down into prone. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl Steiner Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 I seem to recall Steve saying that he didn't want to see micromanagement orders such as "stand", "kneel", "go prone" etc in the game as this was not what the game was about. You can order a unit to move to a particular map reference but whether they go prone or "take a knee" when they get there is up to them, not you, as your eye is supposed to be on the bigger picture. I have noticed though that if you put a unit behind a slope, they often stand fully upright so they can see over the crest, so the TAC AI does change posture in some circumstances. I also think one or two men usually take a knee anyway as default behaviour, with the rest generally lying prone. One solution I would like to suggest is that when you give a unit a fire order and trace a line of sight for the unit, the game should take into account lines of sight that are not valid right now but would be if the unit changed its posture from prone to kneeling or kneeling to standing up. Once you click down the order, the unit will adjust its posture to accomodate the order. This would allow you to trace lines of sight where currently you cannot, without the need to micromanage. Of course this is only for firing. If you just wanted the men to take a peek without revealing their position, it would require another combat action such as "Spot Briefly". This would allow a unit to kneel or stand for 15 seconds just to look in a particular direction. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryujin Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 The problem is that CM often is a game about micromanagement, as you're required to make most decisions for every unit on the map and they can't be expected to do much more than pick targets on their own. The TAC AI sometimes does smart things, but it often has little sense of context or initiative. Personally while I'd love a decent AI you could delegate things to like the one in Command Ops (on a smaller scale), the next best thing would probably be more behaviors rather than direct orders to give the TAC AI some context rather than trying to guess at what's the best option for this situation.Steel beasts and flashpoint campaigns were both pretty good at letting you give behaviors to avoid micromanagement. Orders like assault and hunt are already pretty useful in CM for their built in behavior changes, more overall behavior orders on the special tab like screen, hold, engage, etc behaviors would be great. So you could pick between the unit being overall more aggressive and favoring better sight-lines over cover, vs say having the unit break away on contact and keep it's head down. There's already a lot of TAC AI behaviors like retreating to cover and picking stance that could be really powerful if we could influence them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnersman Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 I always forget to take a screen shot. But it does seem like when on a steep slope at the crest of the slope the guy with binoculars always seems to be just behind the crest and prone while the rest of his team is above the crest line with the battlefield in full view. :-/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASL Veteran Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 BFC actually tried adjusting the stance of soldiers in fields with tall grass or crops and ... well it didn't work out as well as we had hoped it would. As frustrating as it can be the way it is now it was even worse when it was tweaked. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) When you change the orientation of your unit to have them facing in another direction sometimes one of the group will also change position, from prone to kneeling. Sometimes when an unsplit squad comes to a stop you might see one of the men facing in the wrong direction - he's their 'rear guard' eyeballs to the back. When their under fire its another matter, though. Edited February 2, 2015 by MikeyD 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wee Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Excellent idea! "See, but not being seen" I think no army trains soldiers with a guideline, that when the movement stops, all the guys choose a stance where from they can't see a... poop. Most likely the opposite. Even I have received a training, where whenever movement stops, everybody in the squad or patrol try to take or choose as good cover or concealed postition, but still keep on spotting surroundings in commanded or chosen sector. This way even a small unit can easily monitor minimum of 180 degree sector (including rear and air or up) and most likely whole 360 sector. Keeping "heads up" is vital not only for the unit for monitoring surroundings, but also for single soldier. Literally, hitting your face in to the dirt will guarantee that you will most likely miss the hand signals of leaders and fellow squad members. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wee Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Excellent idea! "See, but not being seen" Choosing as safe stance without sacrificing spotting and monitoring abilities should be made default. I think no army trains soldiers with a guideline, that when the movement stops, all the guys choose a stance where from they can't see a... poop. Most likely the opposite. Even I have received a training, where whenever movement stops, everybody in the squad or patrol try to take or choose as good cover or concealed postition, but still keep on spotting surroundings in commanded or chosen sector. This way even a small unit can easily monitor minimum of 180 degree sector (including rear and air or up) and most likely whole 360 sector. Keeping "heads up" is vital not only for the unit for monitoring surroundings, but also for single soldier. Literally, hitting your face in to the dirt will guarantee that you will most likely miss the hand signals of leaders and fellow squad members. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wee Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Excellent idea! "See, but not being seen" I think no army trains soldiers with a guideline, that when the movement stops, all the guys choose a stance where from they can't see a... poop. Most likely the opposite. Even I have received a training, where whenever movement stops, everybody in the squad or patrol try to take or choose as good cover or concealed postition, but still keep on spotting surroundings in commanded or chosen sector. This way even a small unit can easily monitor minimum of 180 degree sector (including rear and air or up) and most likely whole 360 sector. Choosing to kneel behind big tree is good idea in forests. Trunk will give some cover and concealment from direct fire or enemy spotters and branched and leafs concealment from aerial spotters. Keeping "heads up" is vital not only for the unit for monitoring surroundings, but also for single soldier. Literally, hitting your face in to the dirt will guarantee that you will most likely miss the hand signals of leaders and fellow squad members. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 ASL Veteran mentioned past tests to adjust stances in wheat fields. I'm trying to remember when they tried that, perhaps CMRT? Kneeling men, if I recall correctly, tended to either get shot thru the chest or they caused mortar rounds to rain down on their unit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hister Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 There's definitely room for improvement there. Tac AI being aware of what ground type it's "sitting on" and adjusting it's "behavior" accordingly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lairstefane@yahoo.fr Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 definitely needed ..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) It's a shame the TacAI can't tell its view from prone is obscured by long grass the same as it's obscured by a wall or hedge; it knows to kneel up to see over a wall. It would be really simple if it was always correct to kneel if positioned in a tile with tall vegetation. Unfortunately it seldom is, only really in the limited cases where troops are positioned in depth in tall vegetation on relatively flat ground. In all other circumstances it is better to stay prone and achieve greater concealment because either: 1. You are more likely to have troops in a position toward the edge of a tall vegetation feature (tree lines, field boundaries, patches of tall vegetation, etc.) than in depth in the center, and they can see out while prone from these positions. 2. Relative elevation makes it possible to see out / be seen without kneeling. Having the TacAI auto-kneel whenever they were on a tile with tall grass or higher vegetation was tried in beta awhile back. It was horrible and very unhealthy for AI. The only real solution would be a player-controlled stance toggle, but BFC is reluctant to go down that route. Edited February 2, 2015 by akd 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan/california Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 Could they take a knee when given a cover arc? No new command, not even a lot to think about. They just prioritize fire over concealment. This really comes up with missile teams that I NEED in the fight for 90 seconds or so. At which time they will get the missile off and bug out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan/california Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 Shameless bump. The semi random difficulty of getting my Javelins in action is the one pesky little flaw in a game that approaches perfection otherwise. Fantastic job overall, but, but..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock Tamson Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) Surely it should just be a modifier, applied at unit level, that determines unit stance. So a unit modified for "concealment" has a prone stance when not moving. A unit modified for "observation", or whatever you want to call it, doesn't. This modifier could also be used for editor AI moves, similar to dismounted etc. Player units could me modified wholesale through the C2 change, which would reduce the micro to 2 or 3 clicks to cover anything from one to all units. Edited February 5, 2015 by Jock Tamson 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.