Jorge MC Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 just found this, sorry I have to share this... and dont forget to read the comments http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/08/19/Russia-Angered-By-Bulgarians-Replacing-Soviet-Monuments-with-American-Superheroes 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson 1812 Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Like that one... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Jorge MC, If ever there was something that would cause Russian angst and worse, this would be near the top of the list. To Russia's leaders and people, it was the Sacred War, and everywhere Russian soldiers fought and died; where their suffering and sacrifice is memorialized in monuments, is also sacred. To them, it matters not that the war monument is in a foreign country. To desecrate (used that word deliberately) is sacrilegious (also deliberate) and only slightly less monstrous than tearing apart a military graveyard for Russian war dead. So much more I could say, but would fain keep Moon at bay! Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Seen this a couple times, that first one is an absolute masterpiece. Besides those weren't Russian soldiers in that statue, they were vacationers who so happened to be in areas occupied previously by the nazis. They were simply lost. Yeah that's it, they had just wandered off. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Asking conquered and subjugated and misruled for decades Bulgarians to regard it as equally sacred, especially in the most ludicrous socialist realism aesthetic, is perhaps a bit much. Romanian joke. A Romanian peasant woman is walking along the shores of the Black sea when you finds a beat up old oil lamp. Taking it home she happens to rub it, and of course a genie pops out and offers her 3 wishes. "I want the Chinese to invade my country". "OK", says the genie, "it shall be done. What is your second wish?". "I want the Chinese to invade my country". "You may not realize how this works, but your first wish is already gone, and certain to happen. What is your second wish, now?" "I told you - for the Chinese to invade my country - again!" "OK, done, foolish peasant woman. Now be careful, this is your last wish. What do you want for yourself? Riches, youth, a long and healthy life?" She thinks hard, then says "I want the Chinese to invade my country." "OK it is done, all your wishes are wasted. Now tell me, foolish woman, why on earth do you want the Chinese to invade Romania 3 times?" "Because to invade Romania 3 times, the Chinese will have to cross Russia, *five* times!" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 That's cold... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper117 Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I can fully understand the Russians being mad... what country or government wouldn't be! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I can fully understand the Russians being mad... what country or government wouldn't be! Certainly one without a sense of humor. Everybody thinks they have a sense of humor.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Everybody thinks they have a sense of humor.... Yeah, the Nazis never could understand why the rest of the world didn't get that they were just kidding. [/sarcasm] Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Sensitivity about GPW monuments aside, statues of Lenin are fair game - he had nothing to do with it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Considering Bulgaria's overall relationship to the war and particularly the German invasion of Russia (Bulgaria never actually declared war on the Soviet Union) the statue is a bit of a slap in the face to Bulgaria. Bulgaria was essentially run over by both Germany and Russia either by threat or actually run over. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nidan1 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 The Russians should offer to remove the monument at their expense, and take it back to Russia. They must have put up similar statues and monuments all over Eastern Europe. The countries that were subjugated by the Soviet Union until its collapse do not have to honor their conquerers. While defacing the statues is not the way to go either, they should offer the Russians the option to take them home, or see them removed by the home country. I don't believe that any sovereign nation should be forced to have monuments honoring their former enemies on their soil. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMS Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 The Russians should offer to remove the monument at their expense, and take it back to Russia. They must have put up similar statues and monuments all over Eastern Europe. The countries that were subjugated by the Soviet Union until its collapse do not have to honor their conquerers. While defacing the statues is not the way to go either, they should offer the Russians the option to take them home, or see them removed by the home country. I don't believe that any sovereign nation should be forced to have monuments honoring their former enemies on their soil. So, you say that Eastern Europe countries were allies of nazys? 1) They were occupied by nazis and liberated by red army 2) They were happy with new nazy order and were conquered by soviets And that is it. 3rd variant "the nazis were bad and communsts also were invaders" is nonsense. American bases are all over Europe till present day, so what, USA are conquerrers of Europe? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVulture Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 And that is it. 3rd variant "the nazis were bad and communsts also were invaders" is nonsense. Really? So which side was Poland happy to be occupied by, the Nazis or the Soviets? They were subject to massacres and atrocities by both groups. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMS Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Really? So which side was Poland happy to be occupied by, the Nazis or the Soviets? They were subject to massacres and atrocities by both groups. Unfortunately, there was no Polish state. Nazis destroyed it. New state could be build by soviets or by brits. Why brits should, when hundreds of thousands of Soviet soldiers died to liberate Poland? "Massacres by both groups"? I would look what would remain from Polish nation to 1991 under nazi rule. Are you serious? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Having a base does not denote occupied. It is simply a contractual issue which includes paying. I don't think I have head of too many instances of an occupier paying for the privilege. The issue of Eastern European relations to Germany and Russia is complicated and the history and national aspirations of those countries don't become subsumed because everyone likes to only pay attention to the two superpowers of the eastern front. The French, Dutch, Belgians etc have never objected to maintaining memorials for allied troops who gave their lives in WW2. I expect that has a lot to do with the fact that our troops went home and left their political infrastructure in their hands. Maybe that is why these monuments are getting defaced. The Russians took far took long to go home. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Unfortunately, there was no Polish state. Nazis destroyed it. New state could be build by soviets or by brits. Why brits should, when hundreds of thousands of Soviet soldiers died to liberate Poland? "Massacres by both groups"? I would look what would remain from Polish nation to 1991 under nazi rule. Are you serious? Katyn ring a bell? The Russians don't have to have equaled Nazi atrocities to have been fully capable of committing their own. And there was a Polish government in exile. They survived in Britain because Russia would have executed them. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_Massacre#/image/File:Katyn_a.png 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nidan1 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 So, you say that Eastern Europe countries were allies of nazys? 1) They were occupied by nazis and liberated by red army 2) They were happy with new nazy order and were conquered by soviets And that is it. 3rd variant "the nazis were bad and communsts also were invaders" is nonsense. American bases are all over Europe till present day, so what, USA are conquerrers of Europe? I mentioned nothing in my post about Nazis, you added that. I was discussing the fact that Soviet Monuments were being defaced by the Bulgarians. I didn't say anything about Eastern European countries being allied with the Nazis, again that is an argument that you want to make. not me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMS Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Katyn ring a bell? The Russians don't have to have equaled Nazi atrocities to have been fully capable of committing their own. And there was a Polish government in exile. They survived in Britain because Russia would have executed them. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_Massacre#/image/File:Katyn_a.png Ukranian president Yanukovich is in exille in Russia. Nobody cares. In 21 century. It is beginning of XX century. Poland opressed pro-russian ukrainians and belorussians. Czechs opressed germans after WW2. Britain opressed people in colonies. As France did. Sad reality. So what? Britain = Japan? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Ukranian ex-president Yanukovich is in exille in Russia. Nobody cares. In 21 century. Fixed that for you. Yes, people care. Ukrainians cared enough to kick him out of office for massive corruption. A feature of the late 20th and 21st century. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMS Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Fixed that for you. Yes, people care. Ukrainians cared enough to kick him out of office for massive corruption. A feature of the late 20th and 21st century. Polish ex-goverment... It was bad example. Too political. Let's stop it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Ukranian president Yanukovich is in exille in Russia. Nobody cares. In 21 century. It is beginning of XX century. Poland opressed pro-russian ukrainians and belorussians. Czechs opressed germans after WW2. Britain opressed people in colonies. As France did. Sad reality. So what? Britain = Japan? No offense, but I am not sure what your point is. I can't even tell if we are actually agreeing. People do care about Yanukovich. His actions speak very loudly about who he cared about, the people of Ukraine or lining his own pockets at the expense of his people. That he is in exile in Russia speaks even louder as to who is his master. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 New state could be build by soviets or by brits. There was a third alternative, which would be built by Poles. The Soviet Union did not occupy Poland out of tender concern for the Poles, but because Stalin and his successors wanted to insure that the next devastating war would not be fought on Soviet territory. Simple realpolitic. And given the history of the previous century and a half, not entirely irrational. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A co Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 The Soviets invaded Poland, Finland, and Lithuania, in '39 and until the Nazis interrupted their project, to crush the states, rob the economies, murder, deport and starve the peoples, and spread their brand of 'socialism'. This is a very straightforward fact. That's what they did. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 The Soviets invaded Poland, Finland, and Lithuania, in '39... Small correction: They didn't invade Lithuania (and Latvia and Estonia) until 14 June 1940. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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