Could we/Should we ever see horse drawn wagons?

[YankeeDog]

We all have long wish lists, my friend. There's nothing unhealthy about wishing big, as long as you can handle the disappointment of not always getting everything you want.

Being a beta tester now, maybe I have a slightly better idea of what's actually possible, but only slightly. Steve, Phil, Charles et. al. would have a better idea still, but even their ability to predict the future is limited. You can modify that old saying "No plan survives contact with the enemy", to "No game feature survives contact with playtesting", and it's still pretty accurate.

[Erwin]

The best argument vs animal transport is the same as for trucks. They had no business being near the front lines where CM2 action takes place.

Unless the scenario is a rear area ambush on a supply column, or until we have massive maps where rear area ops can be simulated, I suspect that even trucks should not be present. I always thought we had trucks as one needed supply dumps (which of course we now have).

[Michael Emrys]

Not sure how to link it...

It's actually pretty easy. See the number of the post in its upper right hand corner? If you click on that it will open a window with just that post. Copy its URL in your browser and then put that in your new post and hey presto! you're done.

Michael

[MOS:96B2P]

It's actually pretty easy. See the number of the post in its upper right hand corner? If you click on that it will open a window with just that post. Copy its URL in your browser and then put that in your new post and hey presto! you're done.

Michael

Thanks for taking the time to explain that. I really do appreciate it. Left to my own devices it might have been another year before I figured it out. (I was wondering how people were getting the URL for an individual post) Now to test it.

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showpost.php?p=1547255&postcount=28

Look it worked! Thanks again.

[Erwin]

Blimey. I bin here for years and didn't know dat.

[Pelican Pal]

The best argument vs animal transport is the same as for trucks. They had no business being near the front lines where CM2 action takes place.

Unless the scenario is a rear area ambush on a supply column, or until we have massive maps where rear area ops can be simulated, I suspect that even trucks should not be present. I always thought we had trucks as one needed supply dumps (which of course we now have).

This is currently true. More so if you have the 3.0 update. 32 sq. KM maps are now possible and presumably they will only be getting larger with each new game.

[Sequoia]

True, but how does one define "rear area"? Out of direct small arms fire? Even as far back as the CM:Shock Force Marines Module the main campaign had scenarios in which companies of US Marine infantry were truck transported. The US player did pre-assualt recon and maneuvering. I like scenarios like that where one has a large map and can choose where to attack, and has the transport that allows time for such maneuvering. Most of the infantry in German mobile divisions was truck transported even in Panzer divisions. Almost all Soviet mobile division infantry was truck transported IIRC.

[sburke]

One wonders what would be the functional use of a horse drawn wagon? I can see folks wanting trucks to move troops quickly on a large map. A horse drawn wagon though isn't cavorting around like Ben Hur's chariot. They would simply be a large target moving likely no faster than a walking man.

As to map size, yes you can do a large map. Start loading that large map with units and you will find things distinctly slowing down. Really want that big map so you can watch a horse drawn wagon take forever to move across it?

CM:rear area services. I think I'll pass on that title. It is just wrong in so many ways.

[Pelican Pal]

True, but how does one define "rear area"? Out of direct small arms fire? Even as far back as the CM:Shock Force Marines Module the main campaign had scenarios in which companies of US Marine infantry were truck transported. The US player did pre-assualt recon and maneuvering. I like scenarios like that where one has a large map and can choose where to attack, and has the transport that allows time for such maneuvering. Most of the infantry in German mobile divisions was truck transported even in Panzer divisions. Almost all Soviet mobile division infantry was truck transported IIRC.

It depends on the scenario and to an extent map design. If the longest sight line is 500M then rear area is much closer than if the average range is 2KM.

Sburke, I'm not here saying we need them. I don't care and think that ignoring them would be okay. However, the maps are getting large enough to deal with things that are exclusively the pointy bit of the spear.

I think that they do represent a unique movement style for heavy weapons largely on the basis that the horses have stamina and lower speeds. Unlike trucks.

And we can have a large map, but we can't have a large map with initial super high unit densities.

[Sequoia]

One wonders what would be the functional use of a horse drawn wagon?

I would like to see them (though if it's too much work for the result no problem) because they were historically used to move infantry guns and would be useful as such to move them along with the advancing infantry. IIRC they were also used to transport infantry division anti-tank assets. I know most designers don't include the transport for defending anti-tank guns. Having sdkfz7s would be nice too, but offhand I don't remember if 88mm at guns can be moved at all right now.

[MikeyD]

If people were willing to accept the absolute bare minimum for horse draw carts BFC might be able to do them *cost effectively* - rigid horse/cart models without animations that move slowly along the ground like vehicles. But I suspect they'd be roundly condemned rather than praised for making the attempt.

[mjkerner]

One wonders what would be the functional use of a horse drawn wagon?

Juicy targets.

[Sequoia]

If people were willing to accept the absolute bare minimum for horse draw carts BFC might be able to do them *cost effectively* - rigid horse/cart models without animations that move slowly along the ground like vehicles. But I suspect they'd be roundly condemned rather than praised for making the attempt.

How about the Sdkfz7 then?

PS. @Mjk Juicy as in juicy horse steak?

[sburke]

How about the Sdkfz7 then?

PS. @Mjk Juicy as in juicy horse steak?

The first time I ever went for sushi it included horse sashimi. Actually not bad.

[Michael Emrys]

PS. @Mjk Juicy as in juicy horse steak?

I have a hunch that the meat of a horse that had been pulling artillery all its adult life might be pretty tough to chew. You could maybe make a passable stew from it, but nice, juicy steaks would be right out. You'd have to be awfully hungry to enjoy it that way.

Michael

[PanzerMike]

Yeah. Better eat the Donkey. On the other hand, it supposedly plays a mean accordeon and can be trained to blow up tanks. That is more than can be said of Emrys.

[Michael Emrys]

...can be trained to blow up tanks.

*puff puff* "Do you reckon that's got 'er, 'enry?"

Michael

[Buzz]

*puff puff* "Do you reckon that's got 'er, 'enry?"

Michael

I want one for my front yard:D

I got a great spot for by a thick cluster of trees on the deep end of the pond. Couple of acres from there to the dirt road road so it would not scare the live horses that pass

Outside CMRT but maybe CMSF-2 ?

It was reported that Mr. Al-Baghdadi & ISIS use motorcycle couriers extensively to avoid communication detection. So if motorcycles are modeled ...

MikeyD "If people were willing to accept the absolute bare minimum for horse draw carts BFC might be able to do them *cost effectively* - rigid horse/cart models without animations that move slowly along the ground like vehicles. But I suspect they'd be roundly condemned rather than praised for making the attempt."

You know if some whine about new features in a 3.0 upgrade they won't settle for less than the Queens Carriage with a 50.cal and assorted Royal Calvary at the ready with lances.

[PanzerMike]

He he he, too funny Emrys.