How should I use XO units?

[LC-]

Tried doing a search for this but the word XO is too short for it? Anyhow am I using the XO units right? Here is what I do,

Lets say I have a mortar team behind a hill. I deploy them back behind the ridge with the XO by them. I then send the commander to the ridge with a sneak command to call in an indirect fire mission. Is this the intended use? Or am I wasting them back by the mortar team?

[Erwin]

What to do with XO, 2IC, HQ support units etc in a game where they have no real function?

Although I don't recall ever losing my company CO, apparently the XO and 2IC units will take over if the CO HQ is eliminated. (IIRC it's never been explained if their command bonuses will apply.) However, if they have no radios they often cannot be used as FO's. Right now I have Brit XO/2IC's in the Nijmegan campaign that can't do anything - they don't even have binoculars IIRC!

So, they get used for suicidal recon or medic duties.

[womble]

Being back with the mortars, they're pretty safe, I guess, which will mean that when their CO gets geeked, they'll still be available to take over, even if that means a long hike to where the unit is centred. A lot of people use them to help police up the casualties that don't need to/can't practically be looted by the firing line troops.

If they have "better than average" soft stats, they can be usefully armed with special weapons (either from vehicles or from fallen comrades) and thrown into the fray; the leader is occasionally only armed with a sidearm, so if you can get him to do the Buddy Aid, he's one of the few pTruppen who can recover a dropped SMG.

[womble]

Although I don't recall ever losing my company CO, apparently the XO and 2IC units will take over if the CO HQ is eliminated. (IIRC it's never been explained if their command bonuses will apply.)

Their "Leadership" rating will apply as if they were the CO they've replaced, but at the XO's values, and only "in person" - not via radio and not, IIRC, at "distant vision" ranges.

However, if they have no radios they often cannot be used as FO's. Right now I have Brit XO/2IC's in the Nijmegan campaign that can't do anything - they don't even have binoculars IIRC!

That sounds like the commander pTruppe might be a casualty. Every XO I've ever checked has had both bins and artillery privileges, and those don't (for better or worse in the verisimilitude stakes) require radios to continue to operate.

[Erwin]

Thanks for clarification re command values. And yes, perhaps my XO's lost someone critical hence no FO capability. I think I have 3 on the map so will check if at least one is ok.

[akd]

What to do with XO, 2IC, HQ support units etc in a game where they have no real function?

Although I don't recall ever losing my company CO, apparently the XO and 2IC units will take over if the CO HQ is eliminated.

Sounds like a very real function.

Their "Leadership" rating will apply as if they were the CO they've replaced, but at the XO's values, and only "in person" - not via radio and not, IIRC, at "distant vision" ranges.

That's not correct. If the XO team forms a new HQ, it functions as the unit's HQ in every way. If it has a radio, it will have radio C2 with subornidates so equipped. You are perhaps confusing this with the rule that allows temporary, local-only command influence from higher HQs positioned nearby units.

[womble]

That's not correct. If the XO team forms a new HQ, it functions as the unit's HQ in every way. If it has a radio, it will have radio C2 with subornidates so equipped. You are perhaps confusing this with the rule that allows temporary, local-only command influence from higher HQs positioned nearby units.

Ah. You're right. I am. Probably because I've yet to see an XO with a radio... and the fact that usually the CoyHQ is dead because they were babysitting units that didn't have their own HQs nearby, and so were operating as you describe to begin with.

[Erwin]

To Clarify: Some XO/2IC/HQ Support units have radios and other do not. Is that correct?

And if the Co HQ is eliminated (how is that defined BTW - the CO is dead or the entire unit is dead?) would the XO unit suddenly possess radio capability, or they are exactly the same as b4?

[womble]

To Clarify: Some XO/2IC/HQ Support units have radios and other do not. Is that correct?

As far as I have seen, no XO units have radios. Some HQ support units do. 2IC groups, I don't know.

And if the Co HQ is eliminated (how is that defined BTW - the CO is dead or the entire unit is dead?) would the XO unit suddenly possess radio capability, or they are exactly the same as b4?

It's defined by the actual CO being dead, not their whole unit. And no, the XO unit doesn't possess radio capability, unfortuntately. I've never succeeded in Buddy Aiding a radio off the CO's team either; that might be in the realms of possibility, though I doubt it.

[Erwin]

IIRC FO's without radios can still spot. Does that sort of abstraction also apply to XO type units without radios?

I don't think I have ever used XO type units for anything other than recon or medics, so this is interesting.

[womble]

IIRC FO's without radios can still spot. Does that sort of abstraction also apply to XO type units without radios?

It certainly does for some. The standard Normandy American Infantry Company XO, to my fairly certain recollection, has no radio, but the abililty to call arty, and I'm sure they're not unique.

[Freyberg]

Keep them away from the CO, because if he gets killed by a stray shell or bullet they will come in vitally handy - which has happened to me two or three times.

If you lose your overall commander your whole communication net will be jeopardised, so 2inC is quite a valuable team.

[Erwin]

Yes, I try and keep the CO apart from the XO/2IC for that reason. But, wasn't sure how effective the XO/2IC would be in the event it had to take over. So, I tend to use em as I described. Can't remember the last time I lost a CO.

[Freyberg]

Actually it's a massive hassle when you lose a CO - in a current battle where CO got taken out by a sniper, the 2inC is having a hell of a time getting control over the mortars, and he's sitting only a few metres away from them, but better than nothing.

[MikeyD]

I believe the XO in the game carries the CO's briefcase and secures him suitable companionship for the evening. So if you're on a map that has a village well behind the front line you should hop him into the nearest jeep and scoot him on over to start knocking on doors and enquiring after any patriotic madamoiselles.

[Doug Williams]

In QBs I tend to just delete them and use the extra points to upgrade a sniper or AT team.

[Dr.Fusselpulli]

This leads me to another question. What is the XO-Unit in the german companies? Is this the "Spieß" with its "Geschäftszimmersoldaten"?

The Spieß or "Kompaniefeldwebel", also known as "Mother of the Company".

In the Wehrmacht it wasn´t the "Kompaniefeldwebel" but known as "Hauptfeldwebel" (don´t mix this with the same named rank in the modern german army "Hauptfeldwebel", in the bundeswehr). Because I don´t know what else this XO else could be in the german army. There is no executive officer at all. The "Spieß" or one of the platoon-leaders are in this role. So I think the XO must be the Spieß, what else could it be?

I don´t know if its possible to translate it, but there is a pun about the "Spieß" in the german army: "Wenn ihr Sexleben im Dienst zu kurz kommt, einfach mal den Spieß umdrehen."

[Erwin]

I have long asked BF for the inclusion of brothel buildings and "ladies of the night" units so as to fully realize the WW2 realism experiment. Alas...

[Badger73]

This leads me to another question. What is the XO-Unit in the german companies? Is this the "Spieß" with its "Geschäftszimmersoldaten"?

<snipped>

I've gleaned that the Germans armies of WW1 and WW2 had a lot fewer commissioned officers than Britian, France, and the United States. It seems there was no "Company Executive Officer" in the Heer system. The Second in Command was the senior platoon commander.

An infantry company on average usually comprised just one or two officers per company, with the majority of platoons led by NCOs (unthinkable in the British Army and American Armies). The most important jobs went to commissioned officers, while NCOs were generally trusted to do many things, including command positions of tactical units, that were often the exclusive domain of officers in other armies.

The British experimented with warrant officer platoon commanders in 1939-40 and were so unsatisfied with outcomes that they promoted the majority of their "Platoon Sergeants Major" and insisted for the rest of the war that every 36-man infantry platoon have its own officer in command. (Despite having to borrow several hundred junior officers from the Canadian Army (CANLOAN) because of a shortage of trained British officers!)

Americans developed the sensibility that somehow positions of responsibility and authority more properly belonged to officers instead of senior NCO's. (All American pilots were officers where British and Germans would use Flight-Sergeants). The American Officer Corps was (still is in the opinion of many) considered over-inflated, on paper at least. The horrendous casualties suffered by company grade officers leavened that out in combat.

Somewhat related is the issue of age. In the Wehrmacht, there were far fewer officers, and the Germans were far less pedantic about acting rank, seniority, and other such issues. I once heard mentioned anecdotally that the film Zulu is a classic (if fictional) example of the British Army's view on seniority when the characters played by Michael Caine and Stanley Baker compare their commissioning dates to decide who would command the fortress at Rorke's Drift. I was told no such silliness would have occurred in the German Army; command would devolve logically - in the example given, the commander of the infantry unit would have led the "battle group", regardless of his actual rank or seniority. It was not unusual for officers junior in rank, apparently, to command battle groups even if other components were led by men with higher rank. They didn't fixate on such things the way other armies did.

For reference, some good, if brief, reading can be found in the U.S. Army's Handbook on German Forces - others here can comment on the things they got wrong - and the Osprey 5-part series on German Army does go into a bit of detail on the officer/NCO aspirant and cadet systems and the wartime changes.

[Michael Emrys]

One other issue that perhaps belongs in this thread is that in the US army it was common practice that if one of the platoon commanders got popped (which they did with great frequency) the company XO would get sent down to take over the platoon until a permanent replacement could be found. This does not seem to be possible in the game.

BTW, similarly, temporary or permanent replacement officers for battalions and companies often were taken from regimental staffs. But this lies well outside the scope of CM.

Michael

[LukeFF]

Americans developed the sensibility that somehow positions of responsibility and authority more properly belonged to officers instead of senior NCO's. (All American pilots were officers where British and Germans would use Flight-Sergeants).

Not totally correct. The US Army Air Force had a rank called Flight Officer, which was a warrant officer position open to pilots, navigators, flight engineers, bombardiers and glider pilots. In addition, there certainly were enlisted pilots in the Marines and Navy, such as this chap: http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=28374

[womble]

One other issue that perhaps belongs in this thread is that in the US army it was common practice that if one of the platoon commanders got popped (which they did with great frequency) the company XO would get sent down to take over the platoon until a permanent replacement could be found. This does not seem to be possible in the game.

Which is a damn shame, given the importance of C2. It's not like the XO has no authority in the formation unless the CO is on leave...

[Erwin]

It would be nice to have an XO with authority. (I dunno how realistic it was but relieving useless platoon leaders and replacing with a Co CO was fun in CM1.) Then the useless Platoon HQ's could go on the suicide recon missions (instant punishment unit).

[MOS:96B2P]

It would be nice to have an XO with authority. (I dunno how realistic it was but relieving useless platoon leaders and replacing with a Co CO was fun in CM1.) Then the useless Platoon HQ's could go on the suicide recon missions (instant punishment unit).

I agree. In my PBEM games and even scenarios I typically have one platoon leader KIA, or one with a negative leadership rating. It would make the XO teams much more valuable and I think realistic if they could take over command of a platoon. In past missions when I have lost a platoon leader I have sometimes moved the company XO over to the leaderless platoon's area of operation. However, other than making me think I accomplished something, I don't think the move had much noticeable effect in the game.

[Erwin]

That's another interesting observation. The command abilities of leaders in CM2 are so subtle that I usually don't worry too much about units being out of command. In CM1 you could tell the difference much more easily.

One's tactics in CM2 seems far more important that the usual comparison of two identical squads blasting away at each other but with different quality HQ leadership.