Erwin Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 As scenarios increase in size, maintaining speed of play is becoming more of an issue since CM2 is more complicated to "operate" than CM1. Personally, I no longer have any big complaints with the way the game looks, or actually plays out - regardless of any issues we may have about the way LOS works or whether there should be an "Ambush" command, the current state of the CM2 game system is way better than any competitor. The big issue now is the length of time it takes to play a large scenario (let alone campaigns). What can be done to make gameplay more efficient? My suggestion is that there are several UI items that take unnecessary extra seconds to do. When you have to take these actions for a couple dozen units almost every turn in a 2 hour WEGO game, one ends up wasting hours for no reason. My picks in order of time wasting inefficiencies: 1) Selectable waypoints. It saved a massive amount of time in CM1 when one could simply click on a waypoint or line, and thus instantly select that unit. In CM2 one has to go locate the appropriate unit wherever it is on the map and click on the unit itself. 2) The 180 degree arc. When you are moving vehicles especially, I often want them to change arcs at several waypoints. In CM1 it takes a second or less with a single keystroke to do a long range arc. In CM2 it takes several seconds as you shift your POV to place the arc. 3) Revamp the ACQUIRE system so that (within reasonable limits) any unit can swap ammo with an adjacent unit (possibly with a time penalty). No more wasting WEGO turns as units have to disembark so that other units may enter a vehicle and then disembark for yet another unit to enter and so on... 3a) Make it possible to take smaller amount of ammo. What do you do when you need your sniper to take a couple hundred rounds when the minimum is 1,000? You waste turns as other units have to embark and disembark to take that amount and more, until it is possible to take 200 rounds. 4) Some way of instantly identifying the teams of a split squad. Color coded borders etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 4) Some way of instantly identifying the teams of a split squad. Color coded borders etc. That, yes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 +1 to all those. Except 2). That only gets a +0.4 or so. It's a marginal improvement that would have some use sometimes, but not as useful as the others. My priority order would be: 4) 1) 3a) 3) ... ... 2) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 1.This has already been mentioned by others in some other thread a while ago but... some way to deploy your forces in the setup-face using an OOB-list... Maybe this list could be toggled on and of by a hotkey and opened in a seperate window... - A 'clear map' button to remove all units from their default setup locations...(if you want to do that) - If you don't want to clear the entire force from the map you should be able to edit a single unit or formations location simply by selecting it in the OOB-list and then clicking on a location on the map to place it. - dubble-clicking (or right-clicking) on a HQ in the OOB list will select that entire formation and allow you to place it on the map at the desired location (within the setup zone) - single-clicking will only chose that specific unit. - Having the OOB-list colour-coded...Green unit (placed on map), red unit (not yet placed) or maybe having the units coloured in the same colour as the deploymentzones in wich they can be placed and once they are deployed their name in the list will turn white (for example)... 2. Toggable floating incons...To show different kind of information dependent on what option you have selected... - none (all units the same colour) - In C2 yes/no (green=yes, red=no) - ammo-level (green=100-75 %, yellow= 74-50 %, orange= 49-25 %, red 24-0 %) - fatigue....colour-coded in simular way with different colours - moral....colour-coded in simular way with different colours - suppresion...colour-coded in simular way with different colours 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skwabie Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 1.This has already been mentioned by others in some other thread a while ago but... some way to deploy your forces in the setup-face using an OOB-list... Maybe this list could be toggled on and of by a hotkey and opened in a seperate window... - A 'clear map' button to remove all units from their default setup locations...(if you want to do that) - If you don't want to clear the entire force from the map you should be able to edit a single unit or formations location simply by selecting it in the OOB-list and then clicking on a location on the map to place it. - dubble-clicking (or right-clicking) on a HQ in the OOB list will select that entire formation and allow you to place it on the map at the desired location (within the setup zone) - single-clicking will only chose that specific unit. - Having the OOB-list colour-coded...Green unit (placed on map), red unit (not yet placed) or maybe having the units coloured in the same colour as the deploymentzones in wich they can be placed and once they are deployed their name in the list will turn white (for example)... It would be a lot easier to just have the campaign core units file included in the install somewhere. Couple this with Mad Mike's tool, you can edit your force deployment in the editor first, and then repack the campaign. Call it a compromise, but this way it actually doesn't require any coding, at all, from BFC. Not entirely sure if it's the same thing you're getting at though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 ... 2. Toggable floating incons...To show different kind of information dependent on what option you have selected... - none (all units the same colour) - In C2 yes/no (green=yes, red=no) - ammo-level (green=100-75 %, yellow= 74-50 %, orange= 49-25 %, red 24-0 %) - fatigue....colour-coded in simular way with different colours - moral....colour-coded in simular way with different colours - suppresion...colour-coded in simular way with different colours I quite like this idea although the ammo one would be very difficult to make work eg. the HMG team has had some contact - they still have a ton of ammo for the main gun, but the leader has only 12 rounds of 9mm left for his MP40 - how would you indicate that ? But the other options could be useful for identifying "hot spots" on the map where your guys need more attention. Possibly quite useful for the Real-Timers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skwabie Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 1) Selectable waypoints. It saved a massive amount of time in CM1 when one could simply click on a waypoint or line, and thus instantly select that unit. In CM2 one has to go locate the appropriate unit wherever it is on the map and click on the unit itself. I dunno how exactly this works since never played CM1.... But any means to speed up unit selection is very nice indeed! 4) Some way of instantly identifying the teams of a split squad. Color coded borders etc. Same. Main reason I'm reluctant to split them atm... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migo441 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Hear hear! All these would be great. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grondoval Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 It would be very benificial for the game to ease the workload of the player and get away with some of the more repetetive and tedious tasks. It think it would even spark more interest in the game because as it stands right now, only but a few of my friends would be interested (for example) to draw the same waypoints over and over to make a small battlegroup move in convoy formation along a road. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Some worthwhile points and ideas. I have a question though: 1) Selectable waypoints. It saved a massive amount of time in CM1 when one could simply click on a waypoint or line, and thus instantly select that unit. In CM2 one has to go locate the appropriate unit wherever it is on the map and click on the unit itself. You have mentioned this before and recently I was playing a rather large scenario - a battalion of infantry. I have them moving through the woods right now and they are pretty close together company following company following company on a 400-500m front. That is one hell of a rats nest of movement order lines. That got me thinking if your suggestion would actually be a good thing or not. I did not play CM1 much so I have no experience with large numbers of units and this feature. Did you ever have a problem of finding the right line to click on? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 ... I did not play CM1 much so I have no experience with large numbers of units and this feature. Did you ever have a problem of finding the right line to click on? Almost never. ( I was going to say never, but there were 2 or 3 times in 10 years or so of playing CM1 where it was difficult to click the right one ) Occasionally yes, you clicked on the wrong one, then you just changed the camera viewpoint slightly and clicked again. ( and that's taking as an example several command lines down the same road ) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted February 24, 2014 Author Share Posted February 24, 2014 Ian: If One is trying to keep a large number of units moving in any formation towards an objective, it may not matter which waypoint one clicks on in which order. One can see the waypoints that are not in the positions where you want them very easily. My point is that in CM1 all you need to do is click on any waypoint (or line) which selects the unit immediately, and you can move it immediately. It's a very quick, efficient process. In CM2, you have to go search the map for the correct unit, and if the unit is a ways off from the waypoint you want changed, you may select the wrong unit a few times until you select the correct one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I quite like this idea although the ammo one would be very difficult to make work eg. the HMG team has had some contact - they still have a ton of ammo for the main gun, but the leader has only 12 rounds of 9mm left for his MP40 - how would you indicate that ? Good point ! I see the complication... "It would be a lot easier to just have the campaign core units file included in the install somewhere. Couple this with Mad Mike's tool, you can edit your force deployment in the editor first, and then repack the campaign. Call it a compromise, but this way it actually doesn't require any coding, at all, from BFC. Not entirely sure if it's the same thing you're getting at though." Skwabie No...i don't think we mean the same thing. I'm not quite sure how your suggestion would work... What i tried to suggest was this... Often when you start a scenario the setup-zones are very cluttered with a large amount off units in a tight space. It can be a bit tricky to find and organize your troops within that deploymentzone... It would be easier if you could select one formation (1st platoon for example) at a time to deploy in the setup zone where you want it and then give them their orders...When thats done...select the next one...(from the OOB window) I made a small mistake when making this picture...To be in line with my suggestion the text should be blue (same as setup zone) not red... The white text indicates a unit placed on the map... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 What i tried to suggest was this... ...It would be easier if you could select one formation (1st platoon for example) at a time to deploy in the setup zone where you want it and then give them their orders...When thats done...select the next one... This bit, you can sortof already do. First, find the highest unit you're considering, then step down through its TO in the middle pane to the layer you're interested in (Platoon 1 in this case). Double-click the HQ and you've got the whole pltn selected for pulling out the confused mess. Of course, if it happens (and it does sometimes, especially with vehicles) that one squad is miles away from the others, it can take several operations to get them grouped together, and if the one that wouldn't move because there isn't room is out of view, you might never know... Your way is neater and tidier, for sure. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Yup, I like this suggestion RepsolCBR, and I hereby order BFC to implement it immediately! Now i'll finally find out if I have any clout around here! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Some worthwhile points and ideas. I have a question though: You have mentioned this before and recently I was playing a rather large scenario - a battalion of infantry. I have them moving through the woods right now and they are pretty close together company following company following company on a 400-500m front. That is one hell of a rats nest of movement order lines. That got me thinking if your suggestion would actually be a good thing or not. I did not play CM1 much so I have no experience with large numbers of units and this feature. Did you ever have a problem of finding the right line to click on? I've been wondering the same thing every time I hear that particular request. Try sending a column of tanks down a road and then find the one movement path you are looking for. . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 As I said, when I do that I am usually looking to change the waypoints of many, maybe all of them. Having to back and locate a unit every single time when you may have a couple dozen or more units to change takes a lot of time compared to simply clicking on their waypoints/lines. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 This bit, you can sortof already do. First, find the highest unit you're considering, then step down through its TO in the middle pane to the layer you're interested in (Platoon 1 in this case). Double-click the HQ and you've got the whole pltn selected for pulling out the confused mess. Of course, if it happens (and it does sometimes, especially with vehicles) that one squad is miles away from the others, it can take several operations to get them grouped together, and if the one that wouldn't move because there isn't room is out of view, you might never know... Your way is neater and tidier, for sure. This is what i usually do now but it has its shortcommings just like you have described... Yup, I like this suggestion RepsolCBR, and I hereby order BFC to implement it immediately! Now i'll finally find out if I have any clout around here! Yes...I like it to VERY MUCH...And as the original 'inventor' of the idea mentioned i think it will be most useful to sort out the 'deployment mess' in QB-games... Below...A QB-setup with a battalion force...First picture: The setup-situation as it is now... Second picture... Here i have toggled on the OOB-list and done the following: - clicked the CLEAR UNITS FROM MAP-button... - clicked on 1st platoon/3 company in the OOB list TO HAVE ONLY THAT FORMATION avaliable on the map. I placed them where i wanted them and gave them their initial orders. - clicked on 2nd platoon/3 company and did the same... - clicked on 3rd platoon/3 company and did the same again - clicked on the weapons platoon/3 company and placed the support weapons where i wanted them. Very CLEAN AND EASY A small update to the suggestion... - To be able to select a formation (1st platoon for example) to deploy...A better way would be to click on the UNEXPANDED 1st platoon/ 3 comp in the OOB list instead off dubble-clicking or right-clicking the platoon HQ as i first suggested. - Also have the ability to REMOVE a single unit or formation from the map...Not only have the CLEAR ALL UNITS from the map button....To remove a unit or formatin...right-click that in the formation list.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collingwood Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I really, *really* like this idea RepsolCBR. I love CM but one of the things that saps my enthusiasm especially with larger scenarios is firing it up, then being confronted with anarchic chaos in the setup zone. Being able to select and deploy from a logical OOB menu would be heaven. BTW and OT, I gather from your forum name that you will understand me if I say I am "R1200GSA" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I really, *really* like this idea RepsolCBR. I love CM but one of the things that saps my enthusiasm especially with larger scenarios is firing it up, then being confronted with anarchic chaos in the setup zone. Being able to select and deploy from a logical OOB menu would be heaven. Agreed...I think that maybe something like this could be one of the best UI improvements BFC could make... Yes...BMW ! BMW has been the kings of off-roaders for many years as i understand it and i'm sure your bike very nice to ride... Me myself is a racing kind of guy...Now adays BMW dominates the RR bikes to..I have owned a number off sportbikes through the years but my favorite is for sure my current 09' Honda CBR Fireblade with the Repsol paintjob...(i have been a Repsol-fan since before i started riding myself...Mick Doohan was my big idol back in the days...he still is...Marc Marquez is not bad either !)... I also have a GSXR 1000 superbike for some track-fun...My intension is to upgrade this to a CBR 1000 also (next year)... I like the honda better ! 1 more month to wait untill the season starts here in sweden...It's getting closer... Braum, braum !!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
para Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 That is really quite good RepsolCBR +1 from me 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLSTK Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 @ Repsol OT...(who would expect anything less?) Next stop Paris-Dakar! PS - love your suggestion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Next stop Paris-Dakar! Will you participate in that race ? That sounds like a true adventure 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLSTK Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I've been to the 24 Hours of LeMans and the Indy 500 (ten times). So, yeah, it's on my "bucket list". But I'll have to settle for being a spectator. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collingwood Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 repsol, I have watched Mick race. You have great taste, both in bikes and riders. Keep the shiny side up 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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