Shooting prisoners and T-34's Blowing their top

[Felix_45]

Will we get the option to shoot prisoners since we are playing the Russian front? I was just playing out a scenario the other day where a German soldier was kneeling with his hands up after a few turns picked up his rifle and started to spray bullets and my merciful men. Would have like to have the option to shoot him first. :)

Decals are nice for tank hits but watching a T-34 blow it's top would be cool.

[Sequoia]

I don't think BFC wants to allow war crimes but I am curious under what circumstances a surrendering enemy can re-arm in the game.

[JonS]

Will we get the option to shoot prisoners since we are playing the Russian front? I was just playing out a scenario the other day where a German soldier was kneeling with his hands up after a few turns picked up his rifle and started to spray bullets and my merciful men. Would have like to have the option to shoot him first. :)

I'm curious: what tactical value do you believe exists that would justify the inclusion of the ability to shoot prisoners? What thrill would you derive that's worth not just one but three smilies?

[76mm]

I don't get any thrill from it, but it was pretty common, so...

[ChrisND]

Will we get the option to shoot prisoners since we are playing the Russian front? I was just playing out a scenario the other day where a German soldier was kneeling with his hands up after a few turns picked up his rifle and started to spray bullets and my merciful men. Would have like to have the option to shoot him first. :)

...... no.

[Felix_45]

I'm curious: what tactical value do you believe exists that would justify the inclusion of the ability to shoot prisoners? What thrill would you derive that's worth not just one but three smilies?

LOL the smiles were to lighten things up so no need to think I'm looking for some kind of perverse thrill. Tactical value.....well since soldiers who surrender in CMx2 can pick up their weapons and kill you there is some tactical value in that. :)

[LukeFF]

since soldiers who surrender in CMx2 can pick up their weapons and kill you there is some tactical value in that.

Screenshots and/or video, or it didn't happen.

[womble]

You have to leave "hande hoch" prisoners alone for a long time, and the opposition has to get some friendly support nearby for them to "unsurrender". If you pay even a tiny bit of lip service to taking what few opportunites there are to generate the "white flag", you won't have them deciding to take up arms again.

If you want the prisoner dead, just have an SMG squad target the AS where they are. The crossfire will kill him pretty rapid, in all likelihood.

[Vanir Ausf B]

I'm curious: what tactical value do you believe exists that would justify the inclusion of the ability to shoot prisoners? What thrill would you derive that's worth not just one but three smilies?

Oh, oh, I can answer this one.

Prisoners who have surrendered but have not disappeared under the white flag still give spotting information to the other player (at least that is what I have read on the forum; never tested it myself). That can be a problem. I have attempted to shoot a prisoner in a PBEM because of this.

[Vanir Ausf B]

You have to leave "hande hoch" prisoners alone for a long time, and the opposition has to get some friendly support nearby for them to "unsurrender". If you pay even a tiny bit of lip service to taking what few opportunites there are to generate the "white flag", you won't have them deciding to take up arms again.

If you want the prisoner dead, just have an SMG squad target the AS where they are. The crossfire will kill him pretty rapid, in all likelihood.

I have tried direct small arms fire into the AS. For several turns. No effect. I was in the process of moving my men out of the area so a tank could try high explosive ordnance, but my opponent stopped returning files before I got to that point. *sigh*

[Felix_45]

You have to leave "hande hoch" prisoners alone for a long time, and the opposition has to get some friendly support nearby for them to "unsurrender". If you pay even a tiny bit of lip service to taking what few opportunites there are to generate the "white flag", you won't have them deciding to take up arms again.

If you want the prisoner dead, just have an SMG squad target the AS where they are. The crossfire will kill him pretty rapid, in all likelihood.

Womble, in my situation the kneeling fascist with arms in the air was on the other side of bocage. It was at a T intersection of bocage where I had a rattled squad only yards away so I could see what was happening. The said "surrenderer" had LOS to a machine gun team on the other side of his bocage. In hindsight I should have sprayed the bocage with area fire from my MG but being a moral soldier wanting to follow the Geneva Convention I ignored him and paid the ultimate price.

I was just kinda kidding around with this thread but I've learned a thing or two. No more prisoners.....especially if they can spy on you.

[lurrp]

Ooh, ooh! I was playing Huzzar! The other day in BfN. One of my recon 250s with the 20mm splashed a Stuart with close range fire to the turret. The crew bailed. However, since my halftrack was out of "surrender range" (no white flags), I figured it would be best to kill the dismounted tankers rather than have them report spotting information. A burst of 20mm later, no more tankers. So yes, you can kill surrendering troops...

[Michael Emrys]

...but my opponent stopped returning files before I got to that point. *sigh*

Gee, wonder why...

Michael

[Erwin]

Re POW's taking up arms again, I had friendly troops in the same foxholes(!) as enemy who had surrendered for a couple of turns, when for some reason the enemy suddenly picked up their weapons. They were immediately gunned down by the friendlies next to them. It was "interesting".

[Michael Emrys]

Ooh, ooh! I was playing Huzzar! The other day in BfN. One of my recon 250s with the 20mm splashed a Stuart with close range fire to the turret. The crew bailed. However, since my halftrack was out of "surrender range" (no white flags), I figured it would be best to kill the dismounted tankers rather than have them report spotting information. A burst of 20mm later, no more tankers. So yes, you can kill surrendering troops...

But were they actually in the act of surrender? If so, I don't understand this statement: "However, since my halftrack was out of 'surrender range'..."

Michael

[Vanir Ausf B]

Gee, wonder why...

Michael

I figured it was because he was losing.

But I sense you have an alternate theory. Do tell.

[Michael Emrys]

I figured it was because he was losing.

That's a very real possibility and a common occurrence. But I wondered if he might have felt that your trying to kill surrendering men might not be quite cricket and that you weren't the kind of opponent he enjoyed playing against.

Michael

[womble]

I have tried direct small arms fire into the AS. For several turns. No effect.

'S odd. I regularly "lose" prisoners to fire not intended for them. And not intentionally, neither. I always think prisoners are "worth more VP" than dead enemy, even if they really aren't.

[Michael Emrys]

I always think prisoners are "worth more VP" than dead enemy, even if they really aren't.

Am I imagining things or was there some provision in CMx1 where after a prisoner had been in custody for a certain number of turns units on his side might become spotted? This was an attempt to model prisoner interrogation. But it seems to me that that would take longer than a typical CM game.

Michael

[lurrp]

@Emrys: Their hands were raised, but after about two minutes, there was no white flag. So I figured that in this situation, two guys (one wounded) in a little halftrack with badly damaged treads wouldn't bother taking prisoners. I had set up a little ambush position with both of the starting 20mm tracks, and at this point the fighting was rather fierce. I was worried about spotting from the surrendering guys. Hence the cannon.

[Lethaface]

I have noticed that putting units real close to the enemy speeds up the surrender process. Driving a tank past them seemed to work splendid too Surrendering troops picking up their weapons is not uncommon in cm, but I don't see a problem with it. And for the take no prisoners type of game area fire from units that haven't spotted the surrendering enemy or high caliber rounds work fine.

[Vanir Ausf B]

That's a very real possibility and a common occurrence. But I wondered if he might have felt that your trying to kill surrendering men might not be quite cricket and that you weren't the kind of opponent he enjoyed playing against.

I suppose you never know for sure. People are strange. But given the fact that the "prisoner" was effectively acting as a spy behind my lines with an excellent view of my preparations for the next assault, I feel I was justified. If such a thing had been possible in the real war there would have been a lot fewer surrenders accepted.

[Baneman]

I've killed surrendering troops in the situation where 2 guys in an enemy squad surrendered, 1 didn't.

The (very inaccurate ) firing at the un-surrendered guy killed the luckless 2 first.

[JonS]

they aren't PW until the white flag appears. Until then they're offering surrender.

And lethaface is correct: it's up to you to ensure you create the conditions in which the white flag will appear. If you don't, it won't.

Lurrp: the fighting can't have been all that fierce if you could afford to divert your main armament onto a target that posed no threat.

[Vanir Ausf B]

'S odd. I regularly "lose" prisoners to fire not intended for them. And not intentionally, neither. I always think prisoners are "worth more VP" than dead enemy, even if they really aren't.

Prisoners were worth more VP in CMx1, but I have no idea if the same is true in CMx2.

I had a US company HQ area firing directly into the AS from a distance of about 2 AS. Perhaps the fire needs to be going through the AS rather than targeted on the ground they are standing on, in which case I may have had better results targeting the AS behind the prisoner. I will keep that in mind next time I catch a spy.