WTF, MG Bocage twice???

[Seedorf81]

Just now I found out that there are TWO bocage scenario's in Market Garden. "Sacrifice for new religion" and "Green Hell".

What the bl*#dy f#&K is that?

Didn't we have enough of this slow-going annoyance in Normandy and CW?

Were these leftovers from CMBN that were put in to hasten the release of MG?

I really, really, really love some of the MG scenario's and it is an exceptional experience to be able to play in and around Arnhem like I'm really there in '44.

But after CMBN and CW I am fed up with bocage, so I do not understand why these scenario's are in MG. One would have been acceptable, but with two I feel a little cheated.

[Jaksteri]

What have these cute, fluffy looking bocages ever done to you?

Just look at them, so fluffy, clearly you haven't gone through the re-educational class of fluffiness

[Oddball_E8]

Just now I found out that there are TWO bocage scenario's in Market Garden. "Sacrifice for new religion" and "Green Hell".

What the bl*#dy f#&K is that?

Didn't we have enough of this slow-going annoyance in Normandy and CW?

Were these leftovers from CMBN that were put in to hasten the release of MG?

I really, really, really love some of the MG scenario's and it is an exceptional experience to be able to play in and around Arnhem like I'm really there in '44.

But after CMBN and CW I am fed up with bocage, so I do not understand why these scenario's are in MG. One would have been acceptable, but with two I feel a little cheated.

Fallchirmjaeger were introduced in MG. Fallchirmjaeger fought in the bocage in Normandie.

Alot of people have been waiting for scenarios in normandie with Fallchirmjaeger.

So how about you just pipe down and get back to playing whatever the heck you like and quit whining about it here.

Bye bye now!

[akd]

Just now I found out that there are TWO bocage scenario's in Market Garden. "Sacrifice for new religion" and "Green Hell".

What the bl*#dy f#&K is that?

Didn't we have enough of this slow-going annoyance in Normandy and CW?

Were these leftovers from CMBN that were put in to hasten the release of MG?

I really, really, really love some of the MG scenario's and it is an exceptional experience to be able to play in and around Arnhem like I'm really there in '44.

But after CMBN and CW I am fed up with bocage, so I do not understand why these scenario's are in MG. One would have been acceptable, but with two I feel a little cheated.

Your situational awareness is very low. Both are Fallschirmjaeger scenarios. You don't have to play them.

[sburke]

and no they were not leftovers so don't feel cheated...just surprised maybe. BTW they are both actually really good.

[mjkerner]

and no they were not leftovers so don't feel cheated...just surprised maybe. BTW they are both actually really good.

Agreed, sburke; well, except for the FJ uniform bug.

Oh, and I love bocage fighting, since I prefer infantry battles with just a smattering of armor anyway.

[PanzerMike]

Easy there Seedorf81. To each his own. Fallschirmjager in Normandy were long overdue, so now there is a chance to play them. Not interested? That's okay, enough other stuff to play with, right? Enjoy the rest of the module and who knows, after all that flat polder country you will have a real craving for some claustrofobic bocage with nasty FJ's after all, he he he.

And the FJ bug will soon be fixed I am sure.

[Los]

Hey just goes to show there's no issue to small to invoke a non sensical rant.

[Oddball_E8]

Hey just goes to show there's no issue to small to invoke a non sensical rant.

HEY! YOU MISSPELLED TOO, YOU BLAGGARD!

[altipueri]

Yeah, Holland is like, so flat.

Why are Dutch people so tall?

[db_zero]

Yeah, Holland is like, so flat.

Why are Dutch people so tall?

Must be something in the milk.

Personally I like the fact there are some more Normandy scenarios. Playing one of the new ones h2h now. My opponent is really psyched. His grandfather was attached to an AA unit that fought with the American division represented in the game.

[Juju]

Why are Dutch people so tall?

Ooh, ooh, me! Me!: It's because the small ones have drowned centuries ago!

Get it?

Cor, I've been waiting for aaages to use that one!

[Fuser]

I am a short Dutch

[Apocal]

Just now I found out that there are TWO bocage scenario's in Market Garden. "Sacrifice for new religion" and "Green Hell".

What the bl*#dy f#&K is that?

Didn't we have enough of this slow-going annoyance in Normandy and CW?

Were these leftovers from CMBN that were put in to hasten the release of MG?

I really, really, really love some of the MG scenario's and it is an exceptional experience to be able to play in and around Arnhem like I'm really there in '44.

But after CMBN and CW I am fed up with bocage, so I do not understand why these scenario's are in MG. One would have been acceptable, but with two I feel a little cheated.

You seem to be very angry regarding the mere existence of these scenarios. Are you aware you don't have to play them and can probably delete them?

[PanzerMike]

Why are Dutch people so tall?

It's the beer dummy. More specific, Heineken. Drink it, lots of it and you'll see

[Seedorf81]

You seem to be very angry regarding the mere existence of these scenarios. Are you aware you don't have to play them and can probably delete them?

Sure, but my "rant" originated from very high expectations, and a rather short available timespan to play.

In between nightshifts I had an hour or so to spare and, warmed up by the beautiful and very exciting previous Arnhem/Oosterbeek scenario's, I loaded one of the two scenario's that I hadn't peeked at before.

Being busy with some other things I didn't read the briefing and loaded the game. When I returned to the computer I saw a whole lot of bocage, and assumed I had started the wrong scenario by accident.(I knew there was one with a lot of hedgerows, and couldn't care less, but I just didn't want to play a bocage scenario.)

So after checking the scenario's list I started the one I knew was right, and law and behold, the same scenario appeared. Confused by my (still valid) prejudice that there couldn't, wouldn't and shouldn't be two bocage scenario's in MG, I assumed I had mixed up the scenario names and hastily loaded, a little annoyed due to lack of remaining playtime, another one.

Bocage again! Stupefied. Only now I realized there were two of those. Very irritated and with no time left to load and play another scenario, I just had enough time to vent my feelings in a hasty posting. (Still suffering from Normandy-bocage shellshock ?)

Not very diplomatic. But I still believe that there is enough bocage to play with without these two scenario's. And about those FJ,s, they didn't just fight in bocage country, did they?

[Michael Emrys]

And about those FJ,s, they didn't just fight in bocage country, did they?

In Normandy they seemed to turn up mostly on the American part of the front, which was—wait for it—bocage country.

Michael

[Jaws]

And about those FJ,s, they didn't just fight in bocage country, did they?

Correct, start The Battle of the Eerde Dunes and Koevering and you will be swarmed by FJ

[Seedorf81]

Thanks, Jaws.

So considering the bocagefighting and the Fj's, that wouldn't be all to different from other Germans in bocage, wouldn't it? Except for the uniforms and special weapons like the FG42, which isn't even available in noticeable numbers..

I still can't see the reason for bocage in MG, there were numerous fights on all kinds of different terrain in this period. No need for bocage.

[PanzerMike]

To alleviate your pain, I made a scenario which plays out in beautiful Oosterbeek and is designed especially if you don't have too much playtime to burn up.

Ow wait, I see you are already playing it. Great! Please let me know how you like that one!

P.S Seedorf? You were there in 81 for the dienstplicht by any chance?

[akd]

Sure, but my "rant" originated from very high expectations, and a rather short available timespan to play.

In between nightshifts I had an hour or so to spare and, warmed up by the beautiful and very exciting previous Arnhem/Oosterbeek scenario's, I loaded one of the two scenario's that I hadn't peeked at before.

Being busy with some other things I didn't read the briefing and loaded the game. When I returned to the computer I saw a whole lot of bocage, and assumed I had started the wrong scenario by accident.(I knew there was one with a lot of hedgerows, and couldn't care less, but I just didn't want to play a bocage scenario.)

So after checking the scenario's list I started the one I knew was right, and law and behold, the same scenario appeared. Confused by my (still valid) prejudice that there couldn't, wouldn't and shouldn't be two bocage scenario's in MG, I assumed I had mixed up the scenario names and hastily loaded, a little annoyed due to lack of remaining playtime, another one.

Bocage again! Stupefied. Only now I realized there were two of those. Very irritated and with no time left to load and play another scenario, I just had enough time to vent my feelings in a hasty posting. (Still suffering from Normandy-bocage shellshock ?)

Not very diplomatic. But I still believe that there is enough bocage to play with without these two scenario's. And about those FJ,s, they didn't just fight in bocage country, did they?

Oh man, well that really changes things. I have never heard of such victimization before. Hopefully BFC will apologize and the volunteer scenario designer will be punished. Maybe you will be sent a cookie in compensation for your lost time and suffering?

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[BLSTK]

Los: "Hey just goes to show there's no issue to small to invoke a non sensical rant."

HEY! YOU MISSPELLED TOO, YOU BLAGGARD!

Well, to outta three ain't bad.

[Oddball_E8]

Thanks, Jaws.

So considering the bocagefighting and the Fj's, that wouldn't be all to different from other Germans in bocage, wouldn't it? Except for the uniforms and special weapons like the FG42, which isn't even available in noticeable numbers..

I still can't see the reason for bocage in MG, there were numerous fights on all kinds of different terrain in this period. No need for bocage.

Oh no you don't!

If you start looking at it that way then we might as well toss out the kriegsmarine, luftwaffe, waffen SS, US Airborne, UK Airborne and all other troops and just use plain standard Infantry...

The reason there were Normandy missions in this expansion is because of the inclusion of the Fallchirmjäger, its your own fault for not reading the description.

There was really no need to make Market Garden at all by your reasoning. They could have just used the french houses and regular bridges to simulate these battles.

No need for any of the fancy new houses or units.

They could have used the king tiger porsche model instead of including a new one. It's close enough.

Only thing they needed to release was a small patch with the AA weapons then.

No, just because you don't want more bocage missions doesn't mean that you can throw a hissy-fit on the forums about it and make blanket statements like "well FJ in bocage is just like any other Germans in bocage, so no need to make these missions".

[Michael Emrys]

In between nightshifts I had an hour or so to spare...

Sounds like you are working way too hard and it has gotten to you. Time to take a nice long vacation. Impose on a friend who owns a cabin in the woods to let you borrow it for a week or two. Go and sit on the porch and drink beer while zoning out on the sound of the breeze in the pines. Do a little fishing. Go for hikes and then get some good rest. It'll make a new man of you.

Michael

[Seedorf81]

Despite the growing chance that this is going to be one of those endless yes versus no threads, I have to say that there is, in my mind at least, a very big difference between a bocagebattle (where you cross or blast a hedge, get shot, muster mortars and MG's and then - if you're lucky - blast or cross a hedge, get shot, muster MG's and mortars, get shot again etc.) that can be played in many variations in CMBN/CW, and the magnificent maps, battlegrounds, buildings and battles of Market Garden, that have a multitude of NEW attack possibilities and sceneries.

We will probably never agree on this, but if it can make some forummembers a little happier I am willing to change the sentence "no need for bocage", in "no need for bocage for me.".