Is it just me or.....

[Michael Emrys]

However, the Eastern Front audience is about as hardcore as you can get. They will likely buy anything and everything we put out for that Front...

Conversation at BF:

"So what should we put in the new EF title?"

"I don't know, you got any old Pepsi ads?"

Michael

[Childress]

The best way to avoid putting the other foot in the grave is to understand how precarious things are and to not shift weight to the wrong leg. That's true for any business, really, but in games it seems to be one of the least forgiving of mistakes.

You forgot to mention one survivalist principle which applies even more strongly to small, niche companies: never hire MBAs.

[Michael Emrys]

You forgot to mention one survivalist principle which applies even more strongly to small, niche companies: never hire MBAs.

Amen to that!

Michael

[Childress]

Amen to that!

Michael

Spoken like a current or former small business owner! Hiring MBAs will cause Wall Street pros- and yours truly- to short the stock of your company. If it's listed.

[PanzerMiller]

This. My history of wargaming goes back to 1964 and in that time I have witnessed a virtual Niagara of games on the Eastern Front—I am talking possibly hundreds here—

Amen, brother...well said.

I go back to 1972...in my Squad Leader glory days, my copy of Cross of Iron got a much heavier workout than Anvil of Victory or Crescendo of Doom...

Can't wait for Bagration...but I have to say that I'm really intrigued with CMFI...yet another great opportunity to use the game as a historical teaching tool!

Great conversation!!

[76mm]

Would you logically backtrack (Korsun) or go forward (Prussia, Berlin)?

I didn't understand your post in general, but the first EF game, plus its modules, will cover through the end of the war.

[Battlefront.com]

I didn't understand your post in general, but the first EF game, plus its modules, will cover through the end of the war.

Correct. The Base Game establishes the start time and the theater. We then define the end time, which is either another Base Game or the end of the war. For Bagration we're going to start June 1944 and go through to May 1945. For Fortress Italy we started in June 1943 and will go through to May 1945. For Normandy it starts June 1944 and goes through September 1944. Etc.

The Eastern Front Families are basically divided up this way:

#1 = June 1944 - May 1945

#2 = June 1943 - May 1944

#3 = June 1942 - May 1943

#4 = June 1941 - May 1942

I say "basically" because TO&E changes might make it more logical to shift the timeframe around by a month or two between Families. But the times listed above are an excellent staring point.

Steve

[Juri_JS]

How many modules can we expect per EF base game?

I think for Bagration for example a battle for Hungary and battle for Berlin module would make sense.

[Sequoia]

How many modules can we expect per EF base game?

I think for Bagration for example a battle for Hungary and battle for Berlin module would make sense.

Well we MUST have a Battlepack with Finns in it don't you think?

[Battlefront.com]

No idea about Modules or Packs, but yeah... there's enough work in any one of those EF Families to keep us very busy for a very long time. And that's with just the obvious stuff, like Finns

One huge advantage of Allied forces in the West is they were generally equipped with either American or British stuff. Which means for the most part we have to tweak some TO&E and allow for custom textures. For the Axis Allies it's a complete mess because each one mostly had their own stuff, from small arms, to vehicles, to heavy weapons, to towed guns. Granted they don't have the variety of stuff you would expect of the larger nations, but you'd be surprised how much work is in there. The Italians are the only ones that have been done so far.

Steve

[76mm]

For the Axis Allies it's a complete mess because each one mostly had their own stuff, from small arms, to vehicles, to heavy weapons, to towed guns. Granted they don't have the variety of stuff you would expect of the larger nations, but you'd be surprised how much work is in there. The Italians are the only ones that have been done so far.

Very true, but it seems like the Russians used relatively few types of armored vehicles in any numbers throughout the war (plus the lend-lease stuff, which have already been done other than textures), and you'll have already done the multitude of German vehicles so hopefully you'll already over the hump...

Getting the Italians, Romanians, Hungarians, Finns, etc. will be nice at some point but I for one can wait for most of them.

[Juri_JS]

One huge advantage of Allied forces in the West is they were generally equipped with either American or British stuff. Which means for the most part we have to tweak some TO&E and allow for custom textures. For the Axis Allies it's a complete mess because each one mostly had their own stuff, from small arms, to vehicles, to heavy weapons, to towed guns. Granted they don't have the variety of stuff you would expect of the larger nations, but you'd be surprised how much work is in there. The Italians are the only ones that have been done so far.

On the other hand, a nation that would be easy to add to the modules of the Bagration base game is Poland. As far as I know the Polish forces under Red Army command were mostly equipped with Soviet weapons (and a few land-lease tanks).

[Sergei]

The brilliant thing about CMx2's structure is that once we have Finns and Romanians, it becomes very easy to also create Finns vs. Germans or Romanians vs. Germans and Hungarians scenarios. In CMBB there had to be a separate Allied Romanian entity, alas no Allied Finnish side.

And with Lapland War we get another chance to beg for old French tanks!

[Wodin]

Game 3 and 4 are the ones I really really want..first two years of the EF campaign are my favourite..

[Vark]

So would their be a Citadel module for base game 2 and a Stalingrad one for base game 3?

[kipanderson]

Vark,

I would be amazed if Kursk were not the launch setting for base game #2, ’43 – ’44.

All the best,

Kip.

[Sergei]

I think more like EF2 starts with summer 1943, and then is extended to spring 1944 and Leningrad front and so on in modules. EF3 might start with Fall Blau in summer 1942 and Operation Saturn et al until spring 1943 come in modules.

[Sequoia]

Very true, but it seems like the Russians used relatively few types of armored vehicles in any numbers throughout the war.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. I always thought of the Soviets having quite a variety of vehicles. The same with the British. It was only the US that limited the types of vehicles it used in my opinion.

[76mm]

I'm not sure what you mean by that. I always thought of the Soviets having quite a variety of vehicles.

Dunno, in mid-1944 I think they had:

T-70

T34/76

T34/85

JS1

JS2

SU76

ISU122

ISU152

SU85

and I guess some armored cars, SP rockets, and some lend-lease stuff. I don't think that's very much but maybe I'm missing something...

And those vehicles wouldn't change much going into 1945, I guess you'd pick up the SU100 and JS3, maybe a few others?

[Michael Emrys]

I would be amazed if Kursk were not the launch setting for base game #2, ’43 – ’44.

That would be my expectation as well. Kind of a no brainer really.

Michael

[Broadsword56]

What if I wanted to make an EF battle in the April-May 1943 time frame using Bagration?

It would be easy enough to go into the editor and remove later vehicles or kit from the OOBs. But were there any big changes to the way TO&E was structured in the Soviet or German armies between this period and Summer 1944?

Also: Since Bagration is a summer campaign, does that mean we won't get fall or winter season-setting capability in the first EF game?

[MikeyD]

Though I'm not sure, I expect Bagration to proceed like CMFI, each module pushes deeper into the seasons. I'd be surprised if the basegame saw autumn leaves, I'd be surprised if the 1st module didn't see autumn leaves. By VE Day spring is in the air!

[Vark]

Surely Kursk has specific TOE's, terrain and availability of equipment that is rarely replicated anywhere else in the suggested time period.

[Vanir Ausf B]

What if I wanted to make an EF battle in the April-May 1943 time frame using Bagration?

It would be easy enough to go into the editor and remove later vehicles or kit from the OOBs. But were there any big changes to the way TO&E was structured in the Soviet or German armies between this period and Summer 1944?

In October 1943 the Germans reorganized radically their infantry divisions in reducing the infantry regiments from three to two battalions, and the other divisional components were revised accordingly. In the remaining six infantry battalions the number of squads per rifle platoon was reduced from four to three, but without having much effect on the fire power of the division since the caliber of the mortars and antitank guns has been increased, and the number of machine guns kept unchanged. This type of division was designated Infantry Division, New Type (Infanteriedivision n.A.). This type of infantry division will not be discussed further here, as it soon was designated the Infantry Division, 1944 Type (Infanteriedivision Kriegestat 44). This redesignation took place in May 1944 after the following additional economies were put into effect. The strength of the squad was reduced from ten to nine, the number of light machine guns per rifle company from 16 to 13, and the strength of the trains on all levels was reduced sharply.

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/Germany/HB/HB-2.html

Also a good source:

http://www.bayonetstrength.150m.com/German/german_army.htm

[Battlefront.com]

Quick responses.

1. The Soviets were like everybody else when it came to vehicles... they had TONS of variations. Some don't take much time to build and texture, others do. Some are almost totally new art, though those are definitely the exception to the rule.

2. The initial period of Bagration will focus on the Summer offensive. Modules and Packs will extend the timeframe all the way to the end of the war as well as add other forces. CMFI is a pretty good model to look at if you want to see how we're handling seasons.

3. Trying to do any battle +/- roughly 6 months from whatever period you choose is probably not viable. Force structures, equipment, uniforms, small arms, heavy weapons, etc. changed too frequently to make that work out very well.

Steve