Fg42?

[iMolestCats]

I remember ND saying that he changed his mind about putting the FG42 ingame and released some screenshots of it. Anyone know where i can find it? Is it under a certain date?

[ChrisND]

You can find it starting September 1943 in FJ rifle platoons and FJ pioneer platoons. It's pretty rare, so not every squad or even platoon will have one. It becomes more common the later the date.

[iMolestCats]

Thanks Normal Dude!

[MikeyD]

In gameplay terms FG42 seems to be something of a monster. The wrath of a MG42 in a pint-size assault rifle package. I once referred to it as a German BAR with a higher rate of fire.

[LukeFF]

It looks to me like when a soldier is armed with the FG42, he has no ammo pouches on his belt. Am I seeing things correctly with this?

[verulam]

Slightly off topic; Great to see the Enfield butt plates. but the poor old Bren is missing its plate. Anyway a great release, well done and thanks to all concerned.

[LukeFF]

Slightly off topic; Great to see the Enfield butt plates. but the poor old Bren is missing its plate. Anyway a great release, well done and thanks to all concerned.

Agreed, the Bren still doesn't have its buttplate. It'd be nice to see this fixed in the next update.

[LukeFF]

It looks to me like when a soldier is armed with the FG42, he has no ammo pouches on his belt. Am I seeing things correctly with this?

Doing some further research, it seems that spare FG42 magazines were carried on a bandolier draped around the neck. Any chance of seeing this added?

[LukeFF]

'tis a shame, though, that the FG42 uses the same sound as all the other rifles. Steve here said it was likely that the gun would get its own sound: http://www.battlefront.com/community/showpost.php?p=1324662&postcount=20

Normal Dude, how about an audio update for this one in the next patch? A gun like this really should have its own distinctive sound.

[ChrisND]

Perhaps sometime in the future.

[John Kettler]

MikeyD,

The FG-42 shouldn't work like an MG-42. Why? I't's firing a full power rifle cartridge from the shoulder. That turned out to be a bit much. Story here.

http://world.guns.ru/rifle/autoloading-rifles/de/fg-42-e.html

More on the topic. Grogs and modders note pics at bottom.

http://www.forgottenweapons.com/german-ww2-rifles/german-fg-42/

The vids nicely illustrate the controllability and wiggle issues reported above. Nowhere do you see this weapon fired without a support of some sort.

FG-42 (semiauto version?) fired offhand, kneeling, prone, etc. Notice how the weapon punishes the shooter at every shot and how rapidly accuracy goes in the toilet at quick semiautomatic fire. Now, imagine full auto!

On second thought, don't. Both are shown here, and the contrast between semiautomatic and full automatic firing is readily observable,particularly when firing offhand. This guy is working hard to control that gun, and he even has to do so when firing from a rest with the bipod down.

For the FG-42 grogs and mods

http://claus.espeholt.dk/fg42.html

Regards,

John Kettler

[LukeFF]

Perhaps sometime in the future.

OK, good to know.

[YankeeDog]

In gameplay terms FG42 seems to be something of a monster. The wrath of a MG42 in a pint-size assault rifle package. I once referred to it as a German BAR with a higher rate of fire.

Yeah... JK's right. FG42 really shouldn't behave anything like an MG42 in-game. In terms of firepower, it's a near exact match to the BAR. Sure, the cyclic ROF is higher (though not by that much in the later models -- in later production, the FG42's cyclic was lowered to ~750/min). But it still used the same type and size mag as the BAR -- 20-round box -- and it lacked a quick-change barrel. If anything, the FG42's relatively high rate of fire was a drawback, not an advantage, as it made it harder keep the weapon at manageable ROF when doing sustained suppressive fire (i.e., avoid overheating the barrel), and also made it more difficult to control in full-auto mode -- by all accounts I have read, the FG42 had a nasty muzzle climb fired full-auto, much more than the BAR.

An inexperienced FG42 shooter would probably just be putting more bullets up into the treetops compared to a similar BAR shooter. Experienced FG42 shooters would probably keep the bursts very short to avoid wasting ammo shooting at birds, or overheating the barrel, thereby sending no more actual lead downrange than a BAR or Bren shooter (less than a Bren shooter, actually -- the Bren has a larger mag and a QCB).

The real advantage the FG42 had over the BAR was weight. At a bit under 5kg, it weighed roughly half the BAR, making it roughly comparable to the k98, Garand, or SMLE in weight. So it was light enough that it could have been issued as a general battle rifle, rather than as a squad base-of-fire weapon. It's actually a very close analog to the post-war U.S. M14. Similar weight, similar cartridge energy, same mag type and size, similar practical ROF. Both the FG42 and M14 are really semi-auto rifles with a limited full-auto capability.

Of course, the Germans never produced enough of the weapon to make it a general-issue battle rifle, but had the FJ infantry had been fully equipped with FG42s, the squad-level firepower would have been pretty impressive compared to contemporary infantry formations.

[nik mond]

Here's an interesting encounter with an FG 42.

Thomas Dugelby, in his book Death from Above-The German FG42 Paratroop Rifle found an after-action report from a U.S. Airborne Sergeant written during the assault over the Rhine.

“The Sergeant, whose name was classified on the report, stated: ‘we waded off the river bank and made our way slowly to a copse of trees abutting the bank, when suddenly, a (what we thought) MG34 began to pepper our positions. I told the men to take cover, while we tried to pinpoint the position of the gun, but by then had lost three men to the fire. Another string of bullets rattled off from a different position, hitting Lieutenant _______ five or six times, killing him instantly. It was then that I saw the first German raise up and reposition himself, some two hundred yards over the bank. He was not, in fact, manning a MG34, but indeed had one of the dreaded FG42’s in his possession. I made to gather my men to find cover, now knowing what we were up against, when a third FG42 opened up from a wooded area some two hundred and fifty yards south of our position, hitting five men in the process. Before we could reposition, maneuver, and counter-attack, the Germans had successfully retreated, not being held up by the weight of a larger machine gun. Our squad took eight causalities while only seeing one German’.”

[John Kettler]

nik mond,

Impressive! Evidently, some Germans could handle the FG-42, with lethal effect. Appreciate your sharing this.

Regards,

John Kettler

[iMolestCats]

The recoil on the FG-42 on semi-auto looks about the same as my AK.

[MikeyD]

The video of the disassembly said the butt stock was spring cushioned, showed some travel back into the body of the stock. It looks like a punisher to fire but the combination of bipod and cushioned recoil must've mitigated the violence of the weapon. About the same weight as an M1 Garand, eight pounds lighter than a B.A.R., 14 pounds less than a MG-42! Every weapon design is a series of trade-offs. For a big-bullet paratrooper assault weapon it looks pretty good. For a general purpose personal weapon it does seem over-designed.

[John Kettler]

MikeyD,

The accounts I've read, plus facial expressions and body actions/responses indicate the thing pounded the shooter. It weighs what a Kar-98K weighs (9 lbs, I recall), for that was a must meet requirement. I've shot a 98K, but not in rapid semiautomatic fire. The recoil on the 98K was noticeable but not an issue given the few rounds I shot. Now the FG-42's Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! (never mind full auto) ? That's another thing altogether. Further, the U.S. M14 weighed considerably more (helps with recoil), but was still found to be uncontrollable in full auto.

Cited here by XXIV Corps, we find

http://m14forum.com/m14/115665-original-m14-weight.html

"From the U.S. Rifle 7.62MM, M14 and M14E2 Field Manual No. 23-8 dated 7 May 1965.

Weights in Pounds (approximate):

M14 rifle with full magazine and cleaning equipment, 11 1/4

M14 rifle with full magazine and cleaning equipment, selector, and bipod, 13

Empty magazine, 1/2

Full magazine (with ball ammunition), 1 1/2

Cleaning equipment, 2/3

M2 bipod, 1 3/4

M14E2 rifle with full magazine, 14 1/2"

Would I love to run the FG-42 shooter pounding experiment myself? Absolutely!

Regards,

John Kettler

[YankeeDog]

Yeah... I don't care how many springs you put in the buttplate, nothing that light firing a full-sized rifle cartridge is going to be very controllable firing at 750+ rpm off of the shoulder, or even off of a bipod, for that matter.

This is not to diminish the FG42 as a weapon. As I mentioned, I think it's a very close analog to the NATO selective fire battle rifles (M14 and FN FAL, chiefly), which didn't come into service until ~15 years later. So it was definitely ahead of its time.

But just as NATO discovered, a selective fire battle rifle is not a squad base-of-fire weapon. No interchangeable barrel, no belt feed, poor control on full-auto.

[Battlefront.com]

Yup. A Kar98k packs quite a kick. Firing a FG42 from a bipod would be preferable, but it's doubtful it was as comfortable as a MG34/42 (which is actually much better than the Kar99k!).

It was way ahead of its time. Though as a rifle, the MP43/MP44/StG44 was a far more practical full auto rifle solution. Which is why most rifles today are more like the latter than the former. The G3 was one of the last significant holdouts of the full power cartridge. Mine is semi-auto only and yeah... that's got quite a kick to it.

Steve

[Erwin.Rommel]

Yup. A Kar98k packs quite a kick. Firing a FG42 from a bipod would be preferable, but it's doubtful it was as comfortable as a MG34/42 (which is actually much better than the Kar99k!).

It was way ahead of its time. Though as a rifle, the MP43/MP44/StG44 was a far more practical full auto rifle solution. Which is why most rifles today are more like the latter than the former. The G3 was one of the last significant holdouts of the full power cartridge. Mine is semi-auto only and yeah... that's got quite a kick to it.

Steve

In the game, the FG42 use the same sound with the K98K, steve, could you improved this in the next patch?

[MikeyD]

All this talk about FG42 and no screenshots yet! After considerable hunting I found it. The initial design model with the crappy handgrip.

[Apocal]

Good god, who thought that handgrip was a good idea?

[Erwin]

Looks like they expected it to be fired from the hip in a standng position. (It's not adjustable by any chance is it?)

[ChrisND]

Looks like they expected it to be fired from the hip in a standng position. (It's not adjustable by any chance is it?)

No it isn't.

They made very few of this early model anyways, in the next variant which accounts for the bulk of FG-42s they went with a more conventional angle.