Special Vehicles

[Bud Backer]

I haven't seen this really explained in any other threads so I'll ask it here.

The Germans have two half tracks, the 251/3 and 250/3 - radio vehicles. I know their historical purpose, but in game what benefits do they convey? I see that at the company or battalion level one can pick those radio halftracks but why would one in the game? Are they simply reduced carry-capacity flavor units, or do they somehow improve the C2 aspect of the game?

Similarly, the 251/7 Pionierpanzerwagen, can one actually use it for bridging? If not, is it just for show?

[stikkypixie]

I don't know about the command halftracks, but I'm pretty sure the Pionierpanzerwagen cannot bridge.

Seasonal greetings!

[Wodin]

The radio will be used if parked near a unit I believe.

[Bud Backer]

The radio will be used if parked near a unit I believe.

Ok, but the company commander already has a radio, so how does this help? Sorry, I'm not understanding the benefit in game terms.

[Vanir Ausf B]

Functionally they are like any other halftrack except with less room for passengers. On large maps you can use them as a battlefield taxi for your HQ and FO units. Or you can park one next to on-board mortars to ensure C2. Or use them for fire support. In other words there is nothing special about them in the game and you just use them like any other halftrack except they cannot transport a full squad.

[agusto]

If my memory is correct, they carry a panzerfaust for passenger use. It can never be wrong to hand that to a combat unit.

[Bud Backer]

Functionally they are like any other halftrack except with less room for passengers. On large maps you can use them as a battlefield taxi for your HQ and FO units. Or you can park one next to on-board mortars to ensure C2. Or use them for fire support. In other words there is nothing special about them in the game and you just use them like any other halftrack except they cannot transport a full squad.

Thank you for the clarification.

So two questions comes to mind:

1) Gamey as it may seem, I can use the radio halftracks to provide C2 to any unit that I want to give a radio connection to? (your mortar example, for instance - the mortar can be kept in a safe place and this half track would let me direct its indirect fire with a distant unit)

2) Does it confer IMPROVED C2 radio capabilities to HQs? That is to say, an HQ has XX% to keep in contact with other units. Does the 1/2Track improve on that to your knowledge?

Thank you again for your help.

[akd]

1) Gamey as it may seem, I can use the radio halftracks to provide C2 to any unit that I want to give a radio connection to? (your mortar example, for instance - the mortar can be kept in a safe place and this half track would let me direct its indirect fire with a distant unit)

An adjacent vehicle with radio does not provide C2, but allows distant spotters to access an on-map indirect unit despite the unit's current C2 status. AFAIK, this was a special rule added to allow mortar carriers to be used as per doctrine.

2) Does it confer IMPROVED C2 radio capabilities to HQs? That is to say, an HQ has XX% to keep in contact with other units. Does the 1/2Track improve on that to your knowledge?

No.

[Vanir Ausf B]

1) Gamey as it may seem, I can use the radio halftracks to provide C2 to any unit that I want to give a radio connection to? (your mortar example, for instance - the mortar can be kept in a safe place and this half track would let me direct its indirect fire with a distant unit)

Correct. In the case of on-board mortars it just has to be parked within a few action spots of the mortars (I don't remember how many exactly, but 2-4 IIRC). And there does not have to be any one in the vehicle for it to work.

2) Does it confer IMPROVED C2 radio capabilities to HQs?

No. The game considers all radios the same.

EDIT: Ninja'd

[Vanir Ausf B]

Forgot to add: parking a vehicle next to your on-board mortars to allow indirect fire from them is not considered gamey at all.

[Bud Backer]

Forgot to add: parking a vehicle next to your on-board mortars to allow indirect fire from them is not considered gamey at all.

LOL

Well I figured it was gamey as it's a vehicle meant to be used for the commander of the unit, whereas in the game, I'll be dropping him off elsewhere and then sending the empty vehicle to provide radio capability to a distant unit.

Not quite realistic but I suppose it captures the spirit of the unit's purpose.

[WinOrLose]

Makes up for the fact that some German mortar CO's don't have radios!?!?

[Bud Backer]

Makes up for the fact that some German mortar CO's don't have radios!?!?

Whoa! Good point!

[Wodin]

Also they carry ammo..very important I find..I always acquire before my troops exit a halftrack..esp any anti tank weapons..

[Quintus Sertorius]

Don't forget you can Acquire ammo from vehicles during initial setup as well. Not that you would forget something so handy!

[Sgt Schultz]

I split all my squads before getting ammo in the setup phase. If I do not do this, then the 9mm gets shared out to teams that do not have any MP40s once I DO split them. Dead weight is never good.

In addition, if you split squads, then load them in their transports in such a manner that they do not re-combine... you have a MUCH faster and more efficient deployment upon arrival. No more exiting, then waiting for the next orders phase to split them. A lot can happen while one is waiting for the movie to play out.

Three halftracks with teams from each of the three squads in each one.

[agusto]

Are there actually german vehicles that carry extra 7,92 Kurz (Stg 44 ammo)? I havent found one so far. That is a bad thing in campaigns where you have to aquire ammo from HTs and trucks, to have an automatic weapon and no ammo replenishment for it.

[Sgt Schultz]

Sorry Agusto, the only way to ammo up a 44 is to buy Bunkers. They do not have much, but they have some.

Yet another reason for ammo crates.

[Bud Backer]

An adjacent vehicle with radio does not provide C2, but allows distant spotters to access an on-map indirect unit despite the unit's current C2 status. AFAIK, this was a special rule added to allow mortar carriers to be used as per doctrine.

A question about this: This implies that the Commander's radio halftrack will function as would any halftrack - or for that matter, a parked tank near the mortar unit. Is that correct?

[Vanir Ausf B]

Yes, any vehicle equipped with a radio will work.

[Bud Backer]

Yes, any vehicle equipped with a radio will work.

Thanks, Vanir.

No idea on the engineer halftrack capabilities? Thought I'd throw that in.

[Sgt Schultz]

In CM 4.0, the pioneers will jump out of the Hannomag, grab a bridge section, plop it down in the assigned water tile, then go back for the next section to repeat. Then that section of river is treated as road.

I can just see it now... four or five pioneer teams trying to bridge a river under fire during an hour long battle.

Yeah, that won't take many man-hours to code. Charles' jar would burst from the overload.

[MikeyD]

BFC was struggling what to do with that pioneer bridge section til they realized it could only carry the very lightest vehicles and would barely span the width of a mud puddle. Heck, it was hardly worth thinking about, not in the same league as a Churchill or Valentine bridgelayer which could have some genuine utility in the game.

A fair proportion of special vehicles are the result of BFC being slaves to unit TO&E. Like that recce humvee in CMSF that's pretty much a waste of polygons. But hey, blame the Pentagon for the darned thing being in the game not BFC. A lot of in-game difference involves what a special vehicle can't do. Hanomag pioneer vehicle and U.S. M2 halftrack both have reduced seating capacity. Bradley FIST in CMSF lacks a TOW launcher.

[John Kettler]

Bud_B,

Welcome aboard!

The true function of armored radio vehicles is simply not modeled in the game, but it would be very important if we had an operational layer. Dedicated radio vehicles are equipped for long range communications and/or operating across multiple nets at once, whereas most combat units and AFVs aren't. The top part of this (above the pics) explains the use of armored radio cars. The lower parts get into specific radio characteristics.

http://www.armyradio.co.uk/arsc/customer/pages.php?pageurl=/publish/Articles/William_Howard_German/German_Tank_Radios.htm

While I agree that there are some things which can be done with a radio vehicle, it's rather akin to a vestigial third nipple--on a guy! Not terribly useful. If playing for points, I'd buy something else.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Bud Backer]

In CM 4.0, the pioneers will jump out of the Hannomag, grab a bridge section, plop it down in the assigned water tile, then go back for the next section to repeat. Then that section of river is treated as road.

I can just see it now... four or five pioneer teams trying to bridge a river under fire during an hour long battle.

Yeah, that won't take many man-hours to code. Charles' jar would burst from the overload.

ROFLMAO! Ok, ok, point taken!

...So we have to wait TWO versions for this??? *ducks and runs*