Bud Backer Posted December 27, 2012 Author Share Posted December 27, 2012 BFC was struggling what to do with that pioneer bridge section til they realized it could only carry the very lightest vehicles and would barely span the width of a mud puddle. Heck, it was hardly worth thinking about, not in the same league as a Churchill or Valentine bridgelayer which could have some genuine utility in the game. A fair proportion of special vehicles are the result of BFC being slaves to unit TO&E. Like that recce humvee in CMSF that's pretty much a waste of polygons. But hey, blame the Pentagon for the darned thing being in the game not BFC. A lot of in-game difference involves what a special vehicle can't do. Hanomag pioneer vehicle and U.S. M2 halftrack both have reduced seating capacity. Bradley FIST in CMSF lacks a TOW launcher. And I have no problem with this. In theory it would be nice to have each unit have a distinct function, even if it wasn't exactly as it would have been historically, but I actually do like flavour units. And I'd use them because I enjoy the feeling I'm doing something representative to what would historically fit, rather than purchasing solely for "winnability." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Backer Posted December 27, 2012 Author Share Posted December 27, 2012 Bud_B, Welcome aboard! The true function of armored radio vehicles is simply not modeled in the game, but it would be very important if we had an operational layer. Dedicated radio vehicles are equipped for long range communications and/or operating across multiple nets at once, whereas most combat units and AFVs aren't. The top part of this (above the pics) explains the use of armored radio cars. The lower parts get into specific radio characteristics. http://www.armyradio.co.uk/arsc/customer/pages.php?pageurl=/publish/Articles/William_Howard_German/German_Tank_Radios.htm While I agree that there are some things which can be done with a radio vehicle, it's rather akin to a vestigial third nipple--on a guy! Not terribly useful. If playing for points, I'd buy something else. Regards, John Kettler Hmmm not a Man With The Golden Gun fan are you? LOL Thanks for the link; I'm generally familiar with how these vehicles were used. What I think would be helpful is that the "Encyclopedia" in the game make the limitations of the are engine more clear. The descriptions, while historically correct, give a different impression as to the units' in-game functionality. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 MikeyD, When the 251 bridgelayer was designed, the bridge was rated for 8 metric tons (96000 and was intended to carry PanzerGrenadier halftracks and trucks & trailers of equivalent load. http://www.network54.com/Forum/47207/thread/1129998448/Sd.Kfz.+251-7+kits+comparison+on+PMMS+-+is+bridge+in+DML+kit+really+that+bad- An equivalent load would be anything lighter than an SdKfz 231 8-Rad armored car, which comes in at 8.4 metric tons and, given typical design margins, could cross safely. http://www.achtungpanzer.com/schwere-panzersphwagen-sdkfz231-8-rad.htm The bridge will handily accommodate the weight of the SdKfz 231 6-Rad, which weighs no more than 6 metric tons. http://www.achtungpanzer.com/schwere-panzersphwagen-sdkfz231-6-rad.htm The bridge will also accommodate the PzKpfw 1, which was practically ubiquitous in the early war. http://www.achtungpanzer.com/panzerkampfwagen-i.htm Thus, at the time it was fielded, the 251 Pioneer Bridge provided the means for the German to advance Aufklarungs, PanzerGrenadier, Leichter Panzer and trucks when faced with obstacles of the order of an otherwise uncrossable trench or ditch. They could do this without resort to full blown bridge building exercises, so maintaining the momentum of advance. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 MikeyD, When the 251 bridgelayer was designed, the bridge was rated for 8 metric tons (96000 and was intended to carry PanzerGrenadier halftracks and trucks & trailers of equivalent load. http://www.network54.com/Forum/47207/thread/1129998448/Sd.Kfz.+251-7+kits+comparison+on+PMMS+-+is+bridge+in+DML+kit+really+that+bad- An equivalent load would be anything lighter than an SdKfz 231 8-Rad armored car, which comes in at 8.4 metric tons and, given typical design margins, could cross safely. http://www.achtungpanzer.com/schwere-panzersphwagen-sdkfz231-8-rad.htm The bridge will handily accommodate the weight of the SdKfz 231 6-Rad, which weighs no more than 6 metric tons. http://www.achtungpanzer.com/schwere-panzersphwagen-sdkfz231-6-rad.htm The bridge will also accommodate the PzKpfw 1, which was practically ubiquitous in the early war. http://www.achtungpanzer.com/panzerkampfwagen-i.htm Thus, at the time it was fielded, the 251 Pioneer Bridge provided the means for the German to advance Aufklarungs, PanzerGrenadier, Leichter Panzer and trucks when faced with obstacles of the order of an otherwise uncrossable trench or ditch. They could do this without resort to full blown bridge building exercises, so maintaining the momentum of advance. Regards, John Kettler Irrelevant, as mikeyD already pointed out. They are too short to bridge any obstacle present in CM. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 They are too short to bridge any obstacle present in CM. Can vehicles cross trenches in CM at present? Including half-tracked and wheeled vehicles? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 akd, How unsporting of BFC to put obstacles up bigger than standard German light tactical bridging gear! Michael Emrys, I looked all through the CMBN Manual in an effort to find anything on crossing trenches. Nothing. Trench crossing ability and vertical obstacle ability are two standard items in describing an AFV, but not only could I find nothing on them in the CMBN Manual, but there was also nothing in the extensive charts in the CMBB Strategy Guide AFV specs. How splendidly ironic we can't do in either game, as far as I can tell, what the first tank could do in WW I! If my understanding is correct, our AFVs can't cross a two foot wide slit trench. The Standard Ordnance Items Catalog, Vol. 1, p. 8 depicts a typical set of specs for a tank, in this case, the M5 Stuart. The two items I mentioned are in the leftmost column. http://www.scribd.com/doc/13810463/Standard-Ordnance-Items-Catalog-1944-Vol-1 I do not understand this strange in-game situation! Can anyone shed light on the matter? Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Wenman Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 How splendidly ironic we can't do in either game, as far as I can tell, what the first tank could do in WW I! If my understanding is correct, our AFVs can't cross a two foot wide slit trench. What's ironic is that no one bothers to check this kind of sweeping statement out before claiming it. It took me all of 2-3 minutes in the editor to establish that all vehicles including jeeps and trucks can cross trenches. P 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeel Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Threw together a quick scen to test this, at least all german units can cross trenches, with tracked vehicles doing it faster than wheeled ones. Edit: AAARGH Ninja'ed, damn you Pete! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Sorry Agusto, the only way to ammo up a 44 is to buy Bunkers. They do not have much, but they have some. Yet another reason for ammo crates. Interesting, I thought that the 1.11 patch and/or 2.0 would add some 7.92K ammo to some vehicles - haven't we been screaming for it long enough ? Wasn't there a long thread calculating how many millions of rounds of it were made ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 It took me all of 2-3 minutes in the editor to establish that all vehicles including jeeps and trucks can cross trenches. That's the kind of information I was looking for. Thanks, Pete. At least we got that one settled. It makes perfect sense that tracked, or even half-tracked, vehicles should be able to cross simple trenches, but I am a little surprised that wheeled vehicles can too. Not that I expect to lose any sleep over it. I only raised the question because the thought occurred to me that if trenches could not be crossed, that would give the bridging equipment presently in the game a valid role to play. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus Sertorius Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Are there actually german vehicles that carry extra 7,92 Kurz (Stg 44 ammo)? I havent found one so far. It would be a nice feature to have "smart" vehicles that could carry extra ammo based on the types of weapons the soldiers associated with it were carrying. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Pete Wenman, Thanks! My remarks were based on the CMBN Manual. Since I'm still on CMBN training wheels (have played only a few scenarios), I've played no QBs, therefore have never had a need to go into the Editor. Am glad, though, BFC did model this. I suspect the light bridge was left out because of the attendant coding, implementation and animation issues. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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