Redwolf Posted December 22, 2012 Author Share Posted December 22, 2012 I would hope that a 57 page thread would be nicely summarized for devs who don't have hours to dig through it (as it has been) - it's not a quick thing to look at for one of us, especially if it's SO incredibly varied as the MG thread is. Everyone is upset about something, and it's wide-ranging and sometimes even fairly contradictory, so even discovering what the posters really *want*, or what the bugs might really be, can be incredibly difficult without tracking every post. Also - if beta testers are already doing it, I'm spending development time on duplicating their work. Beta testers are allowed their own opinion of course, but if they say they're bringing the information to us they do so without fail. That's not going to work, because your beta testers are a selected group who are pretty much pre-selected based on liking whatever happens to be in CMx2. That was the result of the big fights around 2007, the CMSF release, various forum exoduses. They can't make a summary that represents the findings of the critics, regardless of whether those findings are valid or not. And that's why this game is dug so deep into some realism problems. The tendency to define reality as what happens to be in the game has become self-accelerating due to group selection. And the thread had never gone to 57 pages of you have participated in it. The only fact that's a positive development is that there's pretty much only one person left defending the MG behavior as-is. And of course that a lot of people didn't throw in the towel and stick with the game even though the MG behavior, the licensing system and a couple other things might not be to their liking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 That's not going to work, because your beta testers are a selected group who are pretty much pre-selected based on liking whatever happens to be in CMx2. That was the result of the big fights around 2007, the CMSF release, various forum exoduses. This is as much crap as your last batch of crap. You really are on a tear lately. First, you aren't a member of our testing group so, like our sales figures, you have NO IDEA what goes on there. Second, you seem to forget that we've fixed literally hundreds of issues brought up here on the Forums. We've redesigned major parts of the game too. The biggest being the QB system. And yet apparently nobody affiliated with CM's production listens to customers. Which means we fix things based on what, exactly? Good guesses? Well now, if that's true then maybe I should start buying PowerBall tickets. They can't make a summary that represents the findings of the critics, regardless of whether those findings are valid or not. And your proof of that is... what exactly? And that's why this game is dug so deep into some realism problems. On this score I can agree with you. Because CM is just a bunch of 0s and 1s trying to simulate some of the most complex behavior known to man. Things which millions of Dollars of defense and private sector funding has extreme difficulties simulating. So yeah, deep down CM is imperfect. Not sure that's news, though. The tendency to define reality as what happens to be in the game has become self-accelerating due to group selection. And the thread had never gone to 57 pages of you have participated in it. Not sure what you were trying to say there. Did you mean 57 posts? Well, I looked over that and the post count is not really indicative of how much actual discussion there was in there. I think the substantive posts could be boiled down to about 10-15. And the guy that did the most amount of statistical testing summed up at the end by saying "I don't know there is actually something to change" (paraphrasing). The only fact that's a positive development is that there's pretty much only one person left defending the MG behavior as-is. Partly because quite a bit of the arguments were questionable and/or wrong. But I guess that's not relevant to you. And of course that a lot of people didn't throw in the towel and stick with the game even though the MG behavior, the licensing system and a couple other things might not be to their liking. And here we go again with the myth that we're driving away customers because of things you personally have a hair across your backside about. Ironic that you are the best evidence that you're wrong. And by that I mean you buy our games and, presumably play them. You also keep posting here. So either you have some sort of self loathing that drives you to spend money on something you despise, or you're someone who makes himself feel better by putting down others. Either way, not very flattering. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heyhellowhatsnew Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 No problem! I've answered the Steam question a couple of times in detail and had healthy discussions about our position. Best thing to do is search for "STEAM" in this Forum and the Normandy Forum. No doubt you'll find the discussions there. Short answer... until Steam has a business model that is compatible with ours, we won't be on Steam. I know Steam is popular with gamers, but it has to work for us from a business standpoint. At the present time that isn't the case. Steve This is really sad to hear because I feel that the 8 million people on steam would bring in more revenue than from the percentage they'd take, but I know you've personally spoken with them and worked out the numbers so you know more about it. Still.. it's sad.. I wish more grognard games were on steam to get more players. Could you imagine how awesome CM would be with the Steam Workshop? Just clicking on a map or mod to download it like that. Maybe one day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heyhellowhatsnew Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Make me a beta tester I'm sure you need an idiot grognard that loses to the easiest difficulty settings. haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzz Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 "Maybe time for a holiday sale?" No holiday sale but this morphed into barbed comments about what may be happening in the BFC - CMFI sales model… and more! Replies from BFC that guesses were wrong, not facts appear to be disregarded. At this point pressing ahead with the guesses is discourteous and (IMO) insulting. Is someone guessing that BFC personnel / owners are liars about the facts of their own business? As ASL Veteran correctly stated said, "Since the bar for success is set entirely by BFC then what possible value could BFC gain from having someone else who is not intimate with their business model, cost structure, or their needs lecture them on what is a success or not? There is no value to BFC. None whatsoever. So what could the motivations for these discussions be?" Motivations :confused: I thought the thread / motivation was about a holiday sale that might knock $10 off a product you said "….doesn't look very attractive as a base game for more modules". I am guessing … I may be wrong:rolleyes: Off to play some CMFI. Happy Holidays to All Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 This is really sad to hear because I feel that the 8 million people on steam would bring in more revenue than from the percentage they'd take, but I know you've personally spoken with them and worked out the numbers so you know more about it. Thanks. Don't misunderstand me... I think Steam is great for customers and for many small companies that wouldn't have a clue, or the resources or both, to sell their games on their own. Steam pushed the model out into the marketplace before others. Absolutely no ill will towards them. But their model doesn't work for us. We already have the means and resources to publish ourselves. Our target audience can be found on Steam, for sure, but the vast majority of Steam customers aren't interested in what we have to offer. Notice we do sell our Mac products on Apple's App Store. Their backend arrangements are much better for us. On top of that, Mac products are themselves a niche. So we get a better chance of capturing new sales simply because we're a bigger fish in a smaller pond there vs. on the PC side of things. Still.. it's sad.. I wish more grognard games were on steam to get more players. Believe me, if we thought that was practical we would do it. Unfortunately experience for many decades by many wargame companies has shown that the only way to get a broader gaming audience is to abandon the elements which appeal most to the wargaming audience. And even then you're rolling some pretty loaded dice. Several well known strategy/wargaming companies have gone under because the dice came up snake eyes. Could you imagine how awesome CM would be with the Steam Workshop? Just clicking on a map or mod to download it like that.( We could do in-app purchase stuff ourselves if we thought there was a lot of value to be added that way. Since we don't charge for scenarios or dribbles of content (like a uniform mod), we're not sure what we'd do with it. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted December 23, 2012 Author Share Posted December 23, 2012 All things considered I can't see what is so outrageous about suggesting that the non-mainline game goes on sale for a couple days during Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 All things considered I can't see what is so outrageous about suggesting that the non-mainline game goes on sale for a couple days during Christmas. I LOVE the idea!! How about you offer $2 to everyone who buys it and they can get the discount from you. BF would be happy, the customers would be happy and I guess you'd be happy cause there would be a sale! Everybody wins!! By the way WTF is the "non mainline" game. Who the heck came up with that definition? Oh wait I think I see a connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altipueri Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Well I just spent 50 bucks today buying Panther Games - Command Ops Battles From the Bulge because it was on Matrix sale. An impulse buy to the extent I never really knew about the game until yesterday scanning through the website. But people on the forum seemed to like it albeit a bit of bleating about a patch being delayed until January. But a deal is a deal. Any of you guys got the game? This of course has nothing to do with the price of eggs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Steve, I love CMx2 to death, so I have the credentials to be a beta tester. I'll expect a call soon after the holidays! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 All things considered I can't see what is so outrageous about suggesting that the non-mainline game goes on sale for a couple days during Christmas. If you had just said "how about a sale for Christmas?" instead of "we know CMFI sales must be sucking arse, so how about you discount it and maybe recoup some money?" do you REALLY think there would have been a fuss kicked up? Seriously? As I said some pages ago, we used to discount our products over time as they aged. Now that we have the Upgrade strategy this won't happen for the "current" versions, but instead will happen sooner for the "older" versions. Good for customers, good for us. On top of that, the new strategy makes sales events practical and desirable for both customers and Battlefront. So yup... I'm guessing that we will have a Christmas sale next year. A proper one with fanfare and hoopla. Because who doesn't like fanfare and hoopla around the Holidays? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Redwolf baits and Steve bites...it's as old as the forums...Now, all we need is Undead Reindeer to pop up and it'll be a family reunion. Mord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted December 24, 2012 Author Share Posted December 24, 2012 I LOVE the idea!! How about you offer $2 to everyone who buys it and they can get the discount from you. BF would be happy, the customers would be happy and I guess you'd be happy cause there would be a sale! Everybody wins!! Sorry that would cost me a lunch or maybe even two over the next weeks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 what the hell, never mind not really worth the effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cargol Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 From this thread i m just keeping that 2.01 is being tested. Honestly i cant understand why so much fuss for BFC and its products. U like them you buy them, u dont like them u dont buy them it is simple as that,well there is a third choice if you have the funds,the knowledge and so on, u are creating a company and produce games by yourself........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted December 24, 2012 Author Share Posted December 24, 2012 From this thread i m just keeping that 2.01 is being tested. Honestly i cant understand why so much fuss for BFC and its products. U like them you buy them, u dont like them u dont buy them it is simple as that,well there is a third choice if you have the funds,the knowledge and so on, u are creating a company and produce games by yourself........ I think you got the wrong thread with your reply. Everybody in here "likes" the games and none of the people in here belong to the group who want the upgrade for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cargol Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 I think you got the wrong thread with your reply. Everybody in here "likes" the games and none of the people in here belong to the group who want the upgrade for free. No, i m in the right thread,if BFC wants to charge for an upgrade so it be,they don't force me or anybody else to buy it and i think that it's not polite at all from your part to try to tell them how to run their own business.If you find my post strange just pick a store in your neighborhood and ask them the same question i m curious to listen to their reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted December 24, 2012 Author Share Posted December 24, 2012 No, i m in the right thread,if BFC wants to charge for an upgrade so it be,they don't force me or anybody else to buy it and i think that it's not polite at all from your part to try to tell them how to run their own business.If you find my post strange just pick a store in your neighborhood and ask them the same question i m curious to listen to their reply. You are confused. This particular thread had nobody show up who is opposed to paying for the CMBN upgrade. If you want to play with those kinds of kids you should head over here: http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=107793 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cargol Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Yeah, what ever.... Merry Christmas and a happy new year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Don't feed the Troll. Merry Christmas. GaJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 In the spirt of Christmas... snap goes the padlock Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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