thejetset Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I just found one of my Shermans immobilized with a red "X" for tracks and a 2nd one just BARELY hanging in there after each one tromped through about 4 or 5 rows of ..... grapes. I think team BF might need to look into the amount of track damage orchard rows are causing to vehicle treads. Right now, it looks like they cause the same ... maybe more ... damage than a stone wall. I think a "tweak" is needed here for the next patch. It's not a game-crushing issue. But it's a little annoying. Thanks! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Wires-wires-wires! Getting tangled up in the suspension, wrapping around the wheels. Same concept as running over too much barbed wire. Everything works great until a quarter mile of wire spools itself around the return roller, pulling up the planting stkes along with it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Sicilian vines. Yup, those stumps can get pretty thick and hang up a tank. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I've also noticed that most of the vineyards seem to be on boulder-strewn fields, for whatever that is worth. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatmasta Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Well, if Petter Solberg can drive through orchards, then Shermans should too! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oV5SmifmwZY 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejetset Posted November 22, 2012 Author Share Posted November 22, 2012 I know there are many different types of vineyards .... and those "old vines" that LongLeftFlank posted above look like something out of a JRR Tolken book! .... Are you sure those in the picture don't talk and move around when provoked? I still think the damage is set too high .... Do some tests. Take 10 Shermans and drive them into some rows of vineyards. ..... I bet the majority don't make it past the 7th row. .... In the end, these are vineyards ... not tank traps. And I don't buy it regarding the wires. Tanks were frequently used to open paths through barbed wire. I can see how the possibility is there of wires eventually/occasionally tripping up a tank ... but not consistently after only about 20-30 meters into a vineyard. I think this is an area that could use a "tweak". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chek Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Well, if Petter Solberg can drive through orchards, then Shermans should too! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oV5SmifmwZY LOL,what a silly place to put a power pole. Petter's always good to watch,if in doubt apply power. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 And I don't buy it regarding the wires. Tanks were frequently used to open paths through barbed wire. I can see how the possibility is there of wires eventually/occasionally tripping up a tank ... but not consistently after only about 20-30 meters into a vineyard. I think this is an area that could use a "tweak". That's 15-20 tough pieces of wire with associated stakes, combined with stumps of some of the toughest wood in europe. Do you think BFC just stuck a finger in the air and guessed at the impact of the local farming practices on the mobililty of tanks? A quick Google produces this as the first relevant entry I could find: http://www.desertrats.org.uk/bde/4thAB1943.htm Ctrl-F for "wire" a couple of times. "There were a number of vineyards with concrete poles and low wires such as get entangled in bogie wheels. It was necessary to turn left on a steep gradient and proceed along the edge of the ridge, to the start point. Lt Col J Sleeman (CO of 50th RTR) was informed by OC 'B' Squadron, that the chance of success was only about 30%." But they tried it anyway... "...on the move by 0400...Sgt. Mutton, with wire cutters, clipped a way through the vineyards. This was a most exhausting process and by 0500 only five tanks had reached the high ground, and these were still hampered by wire." So the stakidj is (at least sometimes) concrete, not wood. Not something you want to get wound into your running gear. Note that this is just an approach to a jump-off point, hence the ability to wire cut their way through the vineyard. Perhaps for complete verisimilitude, Engineers should be able to "Clear wire", but really, like proper mine clearance, that does seem to be outside the scope of the game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cool breeze Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 In CA we have a lot of vineyards just a couple hours from where I live, around Napa, and those vineyards look even harder to drive through than the one in pic provided. The vine are generally not quite as old and gnarly as those but they are often close and around here we put a **** ton of heavy duty wire up in them, which was missing in those pics. The rally car did seems to go through the vineyard pretty well but it should be remembered that that is a turbo charged 4wheel drive modern race car and besides the 4 modern offroad wheels and sleek design have a lot less stuff for the wire to tangle on. and it has way more horsepower and obviously humungous higher HP/ton. My reckoning from walking through the vineyards is you'd rather not try to drive a modern tank through one and you wouldn't want to try it with a ww2 tank. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempestzzzz Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 HAHAAHAH I can only wonder how many Tankers thought it wouldn't be a problem driving through these little vines. I was raised in California and have seen vineyards up close. Why they have even been know to slow up the frame rate in a powerful computers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Tanks were frequently used to open paths through barbed wire. Tanks were occassionally used to open paths through minefields too. Rather hard on the poor tanks. They'd hope the explosion would just break a track, not burst throug the belly and kill 'em all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Publius Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 I'm in the middle of "Hot Mustard" and found out the hard way about orchards. Three Tigers immobilized in one turn and a fourth immobilized one turn later after finding it was too late to get out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Orchards? Or vineyards? Vineyards I totally agree should be impenetrable to tanks. As everyone has said: strands of wire suspended at inconvenient heights above the ground in many rows ... what a mess. But what's the deal with orchards? Why do tanks get stuck in those? GaJ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 The TITLE states "orchards" but all the descriptions are of vineyards. If someone seems to be suffering a high rate of immobilizations in an _orchard_ zone, let us know. Thanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkelried Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 just a few impressions of vineyards no tweaking required i would say. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 The boy probably never learned the difference between a vineyard and an orchard. The state of today's schools, it's enough to drive one to despair... Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 just a few impressions no tweaking required i would say. Indeed. Even without all the wire, I think the vines by themselves would soon bring even a tank to a halt. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkelried Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Indeed. Even without all the wire, I think the vines by themselves would soon bring even a tank to a halt. Michael this depends on the age of the vine and the tank. i ve seen accidents with modern tanks where they cut the vines pretty easily. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseltaylor Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Hey guys what about adding some sort of cutting device on the front so that they can charge through at speed - but not for Axis tanks obviously. : ) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Publius Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 I'm in the middle of "Hot Mustard" and found out the hard way about orchards. Three Tigers immobilized in one turn and a fourth immobilized one turn later after finding it was too late to get out. Err, yeah, vineyards. I got locked in on the title of the thread. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 The photos above show why infantry in the game doesn't like moving cross-wise through vineyards either. You can force them to do it with closely spaced waypoints but you may find yourself getting fragged in your tent that night by a disgruntled G.I. over it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkelried Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 The photos above show why infantry in the game doesn't like moving cross-wise through vineyards either. You can force them to do it with closely spaced waypoints but you may find yourself getting fragged in your tent that night by a disgruntled G.I. over it. Probably they will need to crawl. Typically the wires start at something like 60 to 90 cms above ground. They are used to give the vines a hold to grow to the side. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altipueri Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I think it should depend on the type of grape. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejetset Posted December 7, 2012 Author Share Posted December 7, 2012 The TITLE states "orchards" but all the descriptions are of vineyards. If someone seems to be suffering a high rate of immobilizations in an _orchard_ zone, let us know. Thanks. That was "my bad". I realized my error after I submitted it. Unfortunately, titles cannot be edited. ... it should have read "vineyards" ... not "orchards". But after reading these posts and also doing some more research on the internet ... I have to agree that vineyards are No-Go zones for tanks. .... but I also found out the hard way. I'm just glad it was vs. AI and not H2H!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejetset Posted December 7, 2012 Author Share Posted December 7, 2012 The boy probably never learned the difference between a vineyard and an orchard. The state of today's schools, it's enough to drive one to despair... Michael :eek: Now now ... let's not get nasty! (although I agree with you that the state of education and the will of youth to learn is not what is was back in the Greatest Generation) ... an off topic from this original post for sure! It was a simple error that made me go "DOUGH!!!" when I saw it. I tried to rectify it in a later post since you can't make changes to the title once it is submitted. My mistake!!! Sorry!!!! .... But I do know enough that you can't make a good Merlot from pressing peaches in an orchard! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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