L0ckAndL0ad

You continue to amuse me, Steve.  
 
/me says "vid shows that it's possible"
 
 
Then says
 
 
Should I even say anything here?
 
 
So is it already happening, possible or impossible? And what are these repercussions?
 
 
Never said I see it as vendetta. I do see a certain psychological pattern in some posts around the internet, this forum included, however. And it gets boring. /me yawns

Yeah, If you want to play Arma, I'd suggest to join some big community. Playing organized MP games is a way to go, singleplayer sucks. There's a lot of different Arma communities out there. I was a part of one, so can recommend some others (English-native ones) that we've played against during TvT sessions - ShackTac, United Operations, Task Force Blackjack. But there's plenty others to choose from:
 
http://forums.bistudio.com/forumdisplay.php?90-ARMA-2-amp-OA-SQUADS-AND-FANPAGES
http://forums.bistudio.com/forumdisplay.php?168-ARMA-3-SQUADS-AND-FANPAGES
 
A2 or A3? A3 is much superior, but requires better PC.

The difference is the LOSAT was capable of sufficient speed to be designed to function as a kinetic energy weapon.  It was a missile that traveled fast enough to bypass any APS or jamming systems of the day, and ignore ERA, that fit on a HMMWV.
 
The 9M123 on the other hand, is just a very fast conventional missile that's still subject to APS, ERA, and the like.
 
Re: APS
 
The rose colored glasses went out of style some years ago.  Need does not indicate capability.
 
Re: The economy stupid
 
It still boggles my mind.  The limiting factor to Russian military ambitions has been economic.  The Russian economy is doing poorly and the Russian government is cutting into stuff it shouldn't to maintain the semblance of functionality.  The fact this is occurring somehow magically doesn't apply because it's the Armata!  The Armata cannot fail because it's Comrade Armata!  The Armata could very well meet all standards and the like.  But it will be at the expense of something else, and Russia's running out of it's children's futures to burn.

Umm not quite. 9M123 Khrizantema is supersonic.

You continue to amuse me, Steve.  
 
/me says "vid shows that it's possible"
 
 
Then says
 
 
Should I even say anything here?
 
 
So is it already happening, possible or impossible? And what are these repercussions?
 
 
Never said I see it as vendetta. I do see a certain psychological pattern in some posts around the internet, this forum included, however. And it gets boring. /me yawns

/me opens up article
/me sees "2300 Armata tanks by 2020"
/me closes article

"Daddy, you're not even trying!"
 
 
LOL. So CAST says, to make themselves look cool. Reality? Not sure if he even knows about their existence. Tho their latest report seemed good, I'm not sure how much people "at the top" actually notice them. They did create a lot of fuzz by bashing Navy procurement, that's for sure.

Re: all equally bad
 
The only thing I'd ask people is to stop riding white horses. As Pablius have just said, talks about freedom and democracy sound hollow. Ideals and reality are two separate things.
 
What I think is going on is a giant inequality of social evolution levels around the world. It doesn't go in sync everywhere. It doesn't take the same paths everywhere. The biggest problem to solving this inequality is the fact that you cannot forcefully "uplift" societies in a timely fashion. Evolution takes time. One of the main factors is the length of human life. Ideals often die with people that carry them. But the good news is that, as long as countries are not sealed up as North Korea, you can't stop natural social evolution from happening.
 
I love sci-fi. There were these two great writers, Strugatsky brothers. I very much enjoyed their pure sci-fi stuff, but didn't really want to read their social-related stuff. But, when I was bored (well, this is why I never am, really), I started going through their social sci-fi. And you have no idea how cool it turned out to be. Actually, much relevant even today. Those who want something to read, keep an eye out. They go deep into social problems, and "uplifting" specifically.

Do not mistake 82 with 82A. 82 is a 12.7mm MG version, while 82A is a 30mm version. AFAIK Russian MoD never bought 82. They've got quite a few 82As already by now, and keep buying them. Existing 80 are to be upgraded to 82AM (equals freshly new factory made 82A, except for some small details), for example, for Marines.

Re: Stalin
 
From all the people I've seen in my life, most of them praised SU times for good quality of life and overall happiness. And the only times I heard someone mention Stalin was along the lines "they didn't allow to do that kind of sh when Stalin was in charge". But when you think about it, Stalin died in 1953. 62 years ago. So actually very small amount of people still alive who lived during his times, and everyone else don't even know much about it. So saying that he is "the most popular leader" would be not true. Many just attribute his work to what came after him. Not to mention the stuff that comes out of Kremlin, including "popularity polls". That's actually a part of social engineering. Saying, "85% supports Putin", so that everyone starts believing it, following herd instinct. This is why I don't like polls.

Re: Stalin
 
From all the people I've seen in my life, most of them praised SU times for good quality of life and overall happiness. And the only times I heard someone mention Stalin was along the lines "they didn't allow to do that kind of sh when Stalin was in charge". But when you think about it, Stalin died in 1953. 62 years ago. So actually very small amount of people still alive who lived during his times, and everyone else don't even know much about it. So saying that he is "the most popular leader" would be not true. Many just attribute his work to what came after him. Not to mention the stuff that comes out of Kremlin, including "popularity polls". That's actually a part of social engineering. Saying, "85% supports Putin", so that everyone starts believing it, following herd instinct. This is why I don't like polls.

Re: all equally bad
 
The only thing I'd ask people is to stop riding white horses. As Pablius have just said, talks about freedom and democracy sound hollow. Ideals and reality are two separate things.
 
What I think is going on is a giant inequality of social evolution levels around the world. It doesn't go in sync everywhere. It doesn't take the same paths everywhere. The biggest problem to solving this inequality is the fact that you cannot forcefully "uplift" societies in a timely fashion. Evolution takes time. One of the main factors is the length of human life. Ideals often die with people that carry them. But the good news is that, as long as countries are not sealed up as North Korea, you can't stop natural social evolution from happening.
 
I love sci-fi. There were these two great writers, Strugatsky brothers. I very much enjoyed their pure sci-fi stuff, but didn't really want to read their social-related stuff. But, when I was bored (well, this is why I never am, really), I started going through their social sci-fi. And you have no idea how cool it turned out to be. Actually, much relevant even today. Those who want something to read, keep an eye out. They go deep into social problems, and "uplifting" specifically.

While I´m happy that the West won the Cold War and don´t consider myself to be anti american, I`ll take a moment to comment on this from the point of view of my corner of the world, Latin America
 
It´s true, I think, that being in the US sphere of influence is more like having a Boss than a Big Brother, it´s more about money than soul crushing servitude, but that doesn't mean there wasn't a lot of innocent blood spilled over that
 
The US backed/supported/tolerated some of the worst butchers in history in Latin America during the 20th Century, and that has a cost, the cost is the monumental anti american sentiment in the region
 
There were, of course, exceptions, when those butchers sometimes turned on the US or when some US President occasionally decided to call them out on human rights abuses (Carter did it to no great effect, but at least spoke of it)
 
Paradoxically, this is the reason why Cuba is seen as a beacon of hope for so many in Latin America, as the one country that stood against the empire, it may sound crazy, but for many at the other end of the US foreign policy it is not
 
In my personal case I was just a kid in the 70s and 80s when all of this was still going on, but friends of my family disappeared at the hands of the State and members of my family were forced into exile
 
I put the blame of it more on our own shortcomings than on the US or any other foreign power, but the narrative the US propagates about being about democracy and freedom sounds completely hollow for most people here, it´s just the way it is
 
In other regions of the world it may well be the other way around, having endured the tyrants imposed by the USSR.
 
In the end the big powers play their game, they may not be equally evil but the simple truth is that their interest come first and the lives of the people in smaller/weaker countries comes second, it`s the nature of the nation-state model, certainly in a smaller scale similar dynamics occur everywhere, smaller/weaker countries are not blameless 
 
Sadly, after the Cold War the international community was not able to find a working status quo and today`s stage is even more complicated by the appearance of non-state actors and global economics, I don´t think the US or any other country has enough power to shape the world, and would probably be better served by using it in a targeted form that apply the notion of personal responsibility and not collective punishment or on the basis of broad regional consensus (like against ISIS) and not by large scale interventions in most cases

MOUT is pretty much like any other terrain, when it comes to winning a fight. Finding enemy, fixing, (flanking - optional), finishing. The question is how to do it most efficiently. OCOKA battlefield terrain analysis still applies in MOUT.
 
Start by thinking if you actually have to clear that particular area, or you can just suppress it and bypass. If that's an objective area you have to capture, yeah, you have to clear it. Then. Expose yourself as little as possible (when approaching), while, at the same time, be ready to give back as much firepower as possible at minimal amount of time (project max DPS, if you will), to be able to win firefight. Think "combat width", from Paradox games, if you're familiar with, say, HOI3. Yours vs enemy. But here, it is multidimensional space.
 
THE best thing to do is to never allow enemy to fire at you in the first place. But that's not always possible. Total suppression is hard to achieve, and you can't suppress everything all the time.
 
Examples:
 
Enemy is in 2+ story building behind a wall. If his guys are sitting on the first floor, when you come in and breach in one point, your support assets (if positioned only behind breaching team) won't be able to fire at the enemy, that can fire at guys that breach.
 
OR, if they are in the building(or even a room) behind the building you're assaulting. Your breaching team comes inside, and gets attacked from the opposite side, and your support assets can't reach there.
 
Avoid such problematic spots. Use entry points that, upon reaching them, cannot be fired at from positions you cannot fire back at with your supporting assets, immediately.

MOUT is pretty much like any other terrain, when it comes to winning a fight. Finding enemy, fixing, (flanking - optional), finishing. The question is how to do it most efficiently. OCOKA battlefield terrain analysis still applies in MOUT.
 
Start by thinking if you actually have to clear that particular area, or you can just suppress it and bypass. If that's an objective area you have to capture, yeah, you have to clear it. Then. Expose yourself as little as possible (when approaching), while, at the same time, be ready to give back as much firepower as possible at minimal amount of time (project max DPS, if you will), to be able to win firefight. Think "combat width", from Paradox games, if you're familiar with, say, HOI3. Yours vs enemy. But here, it is multidimensional space.
 
THE best thing to do is to never allow enemy to fire at you in the first place. But that's not always possible. Total suppression is hard to achieve, and you can't suppress everything all the time.
 
Examples:
 
Enemy is in 2+ story building behind a wall. If his guys are sitting on the first floor, when you come in and breach in one point, your support assets (if positioned only behind breaching team) won't be able to fire at the enemy, that can fire at guys that breach.
 
OR, if they are in the building(or even a room) behind the building you're assaulting. Your breaching team comes inside, and gets attacked from the opposite side, and your support assets can't reach there.
 
Avoid such problematic spots. Use entry points that, upon reaching them, cannot be fired at from positions you cannot fire back at with your supporting assets, immediately.

MOUT is pretty much like any other terrain, when it comes to winning a fight. Finding enemy, fixing, (flanking - optional), finishing. The question is how to do it most efficiently. OCOKA battlefield terrain analysis still applies in MOUT.
 
Start by thinking if you actually have to clear that particular area, or you can just suppress it and bypass. If that's an objective area you have to capture, yeah, you have to clear it. Then. Expose yourself as little as possible (when approaching), while, at the same time, be ready to give back as much firepower as possible at minimal amount of time (project max DPS, if you will), to be able to win firefight. Think "combat width", from Paradox games, if you're familiar with, say, HOI3. Yours vs enemy. But here, it is multidimensional space.
 
THE best thing to do is to never allow enemy to fire at you in the first place. But that's not always possible. Total suppression is hard to achieve, and you can't suppress everything all the time.
 
Examples:
 
Enemy is in 2+ story building behind a wall. If his guys are sitting on the first floor, when you come in and breach in one point, your support assets (if positioned only behind breaching team) won't be able to fire at the enemy, that can fire at guys that breach.
 
OR, if they are in the building(or even a room) behind the building you're assaulting. Your breaching team comes inside, and gets attacked from the opposite side, and your support assets can't reach there.
 
Avoid such problematic spots. Use entry points that, upon reaching them, cannot be fired at from positions you cannot fire back at with your supporting assets, immediately.

@ Panzer:

Thank you for taking the time to formulate your answer - having read it, I respect your opinions and your approach to the arguments alot more.

Ultimately, it comes down to this, what you said:
"Your point is to indicate both histories are bloody. Okay. That's not what we're debating though. We're debating that the Russians stand up to their chin in blood, and deny they're standing in it "

You are right, Russians would never accept their own dirt. Its a mentality that needs to change from the top of the pillar, down to the general public.
-------

@ Sublime

You do make some good points. I will disagree with you on the comment about everyone villifying the U.S. Lets be honest, in the few months that ive been on the forums, the only time I have seen people raise issues about the US in a negative way, is AFTER someone representing your Nation, has laughed or ridiculed poor Ivan, or his crappy mechanised toys, or a party related to Ivan, amd so forth :-) .

-------
Thanks to both of you for the examples of the Russkies and their integration. Im actually quite surprised that they would talk about Russia as a "****hole" - probably due to the experience of their parents in USSR/post collapse 90's? I personally grew up there from 85 till 94. Now have lived 20 years in UK. Integrated fully in the local society, consider it my home, dont have any Russian friends (all my Family is in Ukraine), but I still cant help but feel defensive when someone talks smack of my homeland, or judges it or points out whats wrong with it etc. Would never call it a ****hole or any other derogatory term. Do find hard to accept some of the wrongs it has done. Is it Patriotism? Dont think so. Nostalgia? Nah not quite. Love for a country, and more so for its people - no matter if many of them are misguided/bullish in their way of life? Yeh, probably a little. Would love to see a "better" Russia. But to be honest, for the most part, I dont think its really that bad. I can see a tonne of things wrong with the way things are done here in the UK, the stuff that doesnt get reported, how freedom of speech is repressed and basic human rights are ignored. Best way to avoid problems at home (UK), is to point at a villain (RF, IS, Syria) abroad, eh?

---------

@ Aurelius and Lacroix - im sorry that you had to experience the situations which you describe in your homelands. I really dont know much about the conflict, so cannot comment, but will continue following the discussion closely.

-----
@ Raptor
You are so right about that! I look forward to all the discussions that go on here. One - it lets me learn more of the world, people and opinions as a whole. Two - sometimes through discussion you learn that some people are not as ignorant as I may have initially thought, and do raise good/valid points. Three - you get a reasonable forum to express your own opinions and possibly sway the mindset of others.

Plus, some of the stuff I have read from the guys in this community, is of a real top standard. Should get put together in a work of literature of its own.

BlackMoria and panzersaukrautwerfer,
 
The M551 did indeed have a terrible recoil problem, but its primary tank killer wasn't a honking HEAT round but the Shillelagh IR beam rider ATGM, which was launched from the cannon. Here's a M551 Conduct of Fire training vid I found. I have never seen anything like it in terms of the ins and outs of an AFV's armament and demonstration of proper use for each and every system. Clearly on display is the immense recoil force on the vehicle from firing a HEAT shell from the Gun/Launcher. I read in ARMOR magazine many years ago a letter from a former crewman of an M551. According to him, the recoil forces were so great they decollimated the Shillelagh guidance system, killing the missile capability in the process!
 

 
Regards,
 
John Kettler

''''Kosovo's objection has more to do with who's friends with who.  The behavior of the Serbian military pretty much 1993-1999 is on the road to terrible, and we're ready to remember the agony of sad that the Serbs went through during the bombing, but not the well filled ditches the Serbs left from Croatia, through Bosnia, and beyond.  All the Serbs had to do is stop shooting civilians, and there wouldn't have been much of a leg to stand on.
 
As the case is the region is a lot more stable today, and there's a marked downtick in violence.  And Kosovo isn't a US territory so there you go.  ''''''
 
(note: land in 21st century doesnt need to be conquered on a political 19th century map)
 
 
i duuno about other stuff, but i am from serbia and i am ethnic serb. and i am not nationalist, i am anti serb , i am often disgusted by our traditions ,  i think its pointless and brainwashing-ish. i like western europe  but,
 
you are wrong
 
situation in our country back then was to say the least very complicated. its , (very loose term) something like war of the clans. you have many factions during the time. and listen now, NONE of them are good and NONE of them are bad
 
Albanian unrest  started in the 80s , or even earlier. but 80s are the starting point of this story (kinda simplified story) , it wasnt that much of a big deal, you know unrests happen but not many people at that time thought it will be War... we must see things from their (past) point of view (their: people in the past)
 
you have quazi communists/socialist or whatever they are, you have albanian nationalists, you have Serb nationalists and many other factions. and most of them are dumb as ****, on both sides (plebs)
 
simply put, there are interests of Albanian nationalists, ethnic albanians and to some extent extremists, problem is , sometimes its hard to differentiate who is extremist and who is not, who is for* extremists and who is not and how much do they support certain idea at the given time/region, its VERY VERY complicated. 3 people playing board games @ basement can get into fight , not to mention province/state where there are milions of people...
 
AND you have  serbian moderates ,nationalists and extremists.. its a ****ty mess
 
so their interests (albanian): have their own country/Join albania,or get bigger autonomy
 
Serb interests: keep kosovo (since its heart of serbia and all that bull**** , even tho its true thats where serbia WAS dominant , now its not , due to ww1 and ww2 and other events ) 
 
on other hand you have Milosevic who is "neutral' and want to perserve things (the president), but in reality he kiiiinda secretly does things to benefit ethnic serbs since he sees things are eventually gona get bad, but how bad ?
 
Albanians are those who are attacking status quo,that must be clear, back then Our country was Recognized by the world,everything was legit.
 
Terrorist attacks started, small or big doesnt matter
 
you will say , ''they started   because albanians were supressed''
 
but that is not a honest answer , do you Really think you know who throw the first stone? its a multidimensional situation/problem, you cant just put it into linear box. theres lots of propaganda on both sides, and honestly, you cant know the truth by watching ,well one of the Not so credible News : CNN , 25 000 km away somewhere in atlanta
 
**** happened, on both sides , but on a multidimensional level (Where,how, what,why,Reaction to previous event, wrong conclusions ,wrong translations of the actions etc etc etc ) 
 
you know your country (State)  is very famous for ... well ... strange inconsitencies right? so is every country at one point in time, but just keep that in mind when talking about informations and clinton and other ... ' loving' people. 
i think its safe to assume that clinton doesnt (didnt) give a **** about serbs nor albanians. or at lest its more realistic saying that it doesnt matter what he 'thinks' , he can say he did it for humanitarian reasons, or for the money , it doesnt matter, his opinion is irrelevant. So far Evidence has shown that there are no bad/good guys, only dead/alive guys

I must admit, the behavior of Serbian army was shameful to say the least, but what of the behavior of Croatian army and its paramilitary of-shoots? Of the Bosnian armed militias and jihadists? Your country and its allies chose to side with fascists and radical islamists because it saw it fit at the time. Now we have those radical islamists walking up to the police stations and shooting policemen. And Kosovo. Really? Your country again intervened in entirely internal question and again chose to side with islamists and people who see it fit to finance their operations through drug and organ trade. The entire case for Kosovo was made up by Blair and his wife. Please don't take this as a sign that i support Milosevic and his cronies or that I deny the war crimes that have happened in that period. I answered mostly because what you speak is not entirely true.

Talk about rifles, the Russians are also replacing their primary infantry rifle with the AK-12, another wholly new weapon with every conceivable bell & whistle attached. It seems the Russian military is to Putin as the Palace of Versailles was to king Louis XIV. What we seem to be looking at is a 'vanity project' on a huge scale with little thought to practicality or economy. Hardly the first country to be guilty of that particular sin. Remember the Beijing Olympics? 44 billion and that's probably a low-ball number.

Do they look bluish-black too?

Well apart from Afghanistan and Iraq, JSOC is presumably assassinating people in countries they aren't at war with, without having brought them in front of a judge. While I agree the latter can be a little impractical and there are circumstances in which it is irresponsible to let certain individuals roam the world unhindered. But instead of debating acceptable collateral damage, I'd like to zoom out a bit.
 
If I as a state have to resort to outside of the law, large scale, (international) assassination operations to maintain national security, I'd be asking myself what I have done to make the situation so FUBAR that I'm even considering debating collateral. It's not 'normal' for a democratic state to have hitlists with several thousand people on it. While there is more to debate I think that alone is enough for me to rephrase your example of the thief and the murderer: I think it's more like the murderer confronting someone, who is both a thief and a murderer, about his thievery. 
Let me be very clear again that I'm not defending Russia at all, just a little picky on who's calling them out ;-)

That might be justifiable, if it was true, and certainly that is what the administration is feeding the american public, but in fact the target list is very broad.
 
being a deserter was enough to have a death sentence:
 
Just having the wrong phone could trigger a strike. No verification was made to see who was there:
 
civilian casualties were considered acceptable "collateral damage". Note also how the definition of "civilians" was deliberately curtailed:
 
 
the procedure to "identify" a target was also a bit vague:
 
Drug dealers, farmers and couriers were also considered to be legitimate targets, whether they had any connection or not to the Taliban:
 
 
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/secret-docs-reveal-dubious-details-of-targeted-killings-in-afghanistan-a-1010358.html
 
The U.S. governemnt likes to give the impression that the drone program is a hi-tech "James Bond" type precision operation, but when you look into it, it is just another variation of the same type of terror bombing we have seen before, like the WW2 saturation bombing or Vietnam type "Kill ratios".
 
Is it making "America safer" or just creating the next generation of enemies?

Yes, it is somewhat hard for it to stand out when it is just one brief thing among many during a more than hour long event. Besides, we spoilt it for ourselves by hunting for every little glimpse of it during the previous months. But here is a bit shorter and more dramatic version for you, set to some classical music :



Duly noted, veering off topic now.

The other two most notable parades this year are probably those that happened in Donetsk and Lugansk Peoples' Republics. Not bad for the first time ever:

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
 
Was hoping someone would post the video of the Armata eating ***removed*** on parade.
 
So much half-assed sperging and speculation from folks with basically 0 goddamned actual information of it....asides from videos of half-finished prototypes doing their best impression of a tractor.