Lucky_Strike

Thanks. If I can get a repeatable result then I’ll try to do a write up of how I got there. At the moment I have one working section of bocage that I have managed to make some changes to, mostly getting rid of the bean-pole-like branches. Last night I tried a few other tweaks. One which I am particularly interested in was to make the main branches thicker which actually worked quite well.
I think the .mdr file metadata is quite significant to whether I can get an exported file working, or not. I wish I actually really understood what was happening through the process, but I am only just getting comfortable with the Blender interface. Early days! And most thanks have to go to you groundbreakers, and of course @sbobovyc for his amazing contribution.

Fat bocage trunks and branches anyone ...?

Fat-shaming the bocage ...

So ... I got a bit distracted after @Ithikial_AU suggested some burnt trees might be nice, started to think about modding the actual 3D models - the .mdr files that we've seen @Aquila-SmartWargames and @37mm amongst others change so radically and effectively. This was mooted some time back by a few of you and I said I would have a go at it once I got done with the textures. As my better half will testify I'm always a good one for moving on to the next project before finishing the current one, so I dove into Blender (more of a belly-flop than a pike 💦) at the end of last week. To cut a long story short, I started with the bocage (of course), I was on the cusp of giving up because I just couldn't get the files to export correctly with all my edits intact - think branches only, floating bushes, displaced bushes lah lah lah 😭🤪 Had one more go today and ... lo and behold - I present some subtly changed bocage:

Can't spot what's different? In the middle, fewer bean poles - will please some of you - I certainly won't miss them, and some more, same again ...

Here's a pic the actual Blender file ...

You can just about make out the remaining bean pole branches outlined in orange, there are normally a dozen or so on a larger section of bocage, here we have about half that amount. I also removed a couple of leafy branches, just to see if it would work, they are gone in-game! 
So what does all this mean - I don't know. It took me days to get this far. I can use Blender to make the edits I want, I don't really understand the whole process, why things happen or don't when I export files, but if I can make some edits that make even just the bocage look more natural then I will be one happy lapin.
My plan is to make a fully edited section of bocage - more ragged, less or no bean poles, maybe some better branches and roots - then see how it looks in game. I have a few bocage textures to finish first though, so I can release the Hedgerow Hell mod - otherwise @3j2m7 will be knocking at my door demanding I release them 🥺.
 

Hah! The blind leading the blind, I really don’t know much more myself yet.
My first efforts, and eventual success, were more akin to Lord Percy inventing purest green ...
 

So ... I got a bit distracted after @Ithikial_AU suggested some burnt trees might be nice, started to think about modding the actual 3D models - the .mdr files that we've seen @Aquila-SmartWargames and @37mm amongst others change so radically and effectively. This was mooted some time back by a few of you and I said I would have a go at it once I got done with the textures. As my better half will testify I'm always a good one for moving on to the next project before finishing the current one, so I dove into Blender (more of a belly-flop than a pike 💦) at the end of last week. To cut a long story short, I started with the bocage (of course), I was on the cusp of giving up because I just couldn't get the files to export correctly with all my edits intact - think branches only, floating bushes, displaced bushes lah lah lah 😭🤪 Had one more go today and ... lo and behold - I present some subtly changed bocage:

Can't spot what's different? In the middle, fewer bean poles - will please some of you - I certainly won't miss them, and some more, same again ...

Here's a pic the actual Blender file ...

You can just about make out the remaining bean pole branches outlined in orange, there are normally a dozen or so on a larger section of bocage, here we have about half that amount. I also removed a couple of leafy branches, just to see if it would work, they are gone in-game! 
So what does all this mean - I don't know. It took me days to get this far. I can use Blender to make the edits I want, I don't really understand the whole process, why things happen or don't when I export files, but if I can make some edits that make even just the bocage look more natural then I will be one happy lapin.
My plan is to make a fully edited section of bocage - more ragged, less or no bean poles, maybe some better branches and roots - then see how it looks in game. I have a few bocage textures to finish first though, so I can release the Hedgerow Hell mod - otherwise @3j2m7 will be knocking at my door demanding I release them 🥺.
 

I aim to please. I meant to show a with and without ReShade (is without ReShade what you mean by 'natural'?), but I must have changed something 'cos ReShade didn't produce a with and without screenshot like I usually get. It's late so these are all with ReShade - mostly sunny plus a couple in the rain - latter are probably a bit closer to the normal colours in game. These all feature four textures except the last which is repeated for @Warts 'n' all's pleasure 🤩
Low bocage ...

Tall bocage ...

More Tall bocage ...

Close up ...

Wet bocage, trees hidden ...

More soggy bocage along a lane ...

 
 
 
Ohh, and Barry Bocage ...

 
Very close my friend!

Thanks Sgt.
I'm hopeful that I may have an even better solution to the use of normal hedges as forest thickets. Looking at the 3D .mdr files for the bocage I suspect that I may be able to wrangle stuff so that the texture currently used by both bocage and normal hedge - boccage2.bmp I believe - is ONLY used by hedges and not by bocage. That is to say it's perhaps possible to make both low and tall bocage .mdr mods that use boccage.bmp and the other new numbered boccage bmps that I'm making, so that just normal hedges are using the boccage2.bmp. This would then allow for a unique texture to be created for boccage2.bmp / hedges. They could then, with careful management, or perhaps mod tags, be used as the thickets that @benpark, yourself and no doubt others would like to see in game. I don't know how much LOS, cover or concealment hedges provide when used in this way but I would warrant that it's better in some respects than brush and long grass ...

It seems that the gunner would sit on the spare tire or luggage pile.
 
Damn you can fit 5!

Love your 'forest edge hedges' they really do blend in very well (my biggest objection to using hedges in this way was how painfully obvious they were).

Et moi aussi, mon ami.  Bon chance!
Just keeping the authentic feel going after your lapin comment...

@Lucky_Strike like in the reallity when somebody,  knocking at your  door your have two choices...
Let enter  ...or closing for a while untill you find yourself the right moment !
So believe me I can be patient and like only talking too much sometimes.
... be quiet and drink fresh the savour of the sips can be only better !
I don like and don t want to be a lapin and more have a comment without issues !
JM

Thanks @benpark. A useful write-up from Steve.

I did a small experiment last night just to see what hedges look like in a densely wooded terrain. They are not too bad actually. What I found looked best was having a few pieces of various odd shapes, especially the hedge with gap or the corner sections, spread around the edges of the woods. Then, rather than use the forest floor tiles as ground texture I used weeds, long grass or extra long grass, all combined with brush. The results are a very dense periphery to the woods with the hedges being quite hard to distinguish from the rest of the vegetation. It's quite a lot of work to make it look random and natural, but I actually think your solution of hedges as thickets is very workable.

Hedges in woods viewed from a distance ...

... up close, hedge with gap, can't really be distinguished ...

... trees off, still not easy to see

Map of the area, hedges are a tile or two back from the edge of the woods, bright green.
Of course it only really convinces with a fairly wild looking mod, stock textures may be a bit too regular, but nevertheless it's definitely an improvement. It would still be nice, as you say, to have a thicket texture which could be combined with tree or bush tiles in the same way as hedges or bocage can be. It could even use the same boccage bmps just a bit more random and gappy perhaps.
Incidentally, I noticed that the hedge texture is actually the same as used for the bocage, only thinner. I thought it was a separate bmp, I have seen one called hedge that looks completely different - how is that used? Or isn't it used?

hedge.bmp
I tried hedges out in the open on a map, but it still uses the bocage texture.
I can't do anymore of the 70's inspired mods for fear of upsetting a certain Puritan Protector. Although ,as a child of the 70's, I'd definitely like to see a 70's mod - lots of brown and beige with splashes of disco colours, pixeltruppen with giant sideburns and too much hair running around in flares with stacked heels, or on roller-skates even ...

As you say, it’s not. It’s just a simple rotating pintle mount in a socket on top of a hollow post. All evidence would suggest that the GI could sit on the back seat rest to fire the MG for ground targets, or dismount to get high elevations for AA fire. There’s not much room to stand in the rear of a Jeep, especially with the .50 mounted. So would seem that the model needs to be redone.

Something like this do you mean?:


This one needs less twigs but otherwise one very scorched dead tree. Or maybe this one plus another one that is not so burnt and with a few living leaves?
Now back to bocage ... and please don't anyone suggest a whole landscape of destruction - burnt trees and bushes, scorched grass and brush, uprooted crops, blackened ground, all covered in the dust and debris of explosions ... don't even think it!!!! 🤔🥺
 

Something like this do you mean?:


This one needs less twigs but otherwise one very scorched dead tree. Or maybe this one plus another one that is not so burnt and with a few living leaves?
Now back to bocage ... and please don't anyone suggest a whole landscape of destruction - burnt trees and bushes, scorched grass and brush, uprooted crops, blackened ground, all covered in the dust and debris of explosions ... don't even think it!!!! 🤔🥺
 

Something like this do you mean?:


This one needs less twigs but otherwise one very scorched dead tree. Or maybe this one plus another one that is not so burnt and with a few living leaves?
Now back to bocage ... and please don't anyone suggest a whole landscape of destruction - burnt trees and bushes, scorched grass and brush, uprooted crops, blackened ground, all covered in the dust and debris of explosions ... don't even think it!!!! 🤔🥺
 

Lets make it more simple, Any map design feature would be nice to do in the 3d view, I hate the time wasted in imagining what it looks like from imput in 2d- then verifying in 3d, then having to go back to 2d to try and correct it. All main features should be functional to change and add right in 3d . That would make a huge difference in map making time.

A bit of Googling on the subject - 'cos I got nuttin' better to do ... 😉
The Jeep used the M31A/C mount for the .50 or .30 cal (and BAR apparently). The pintle part at the top was used across all sorts of mounts - easier manufacturing and replacement. The column only housed a socket at the top - no telescoping.
Nice pdf of a field manual here - page 5 is pretty explanatory.
Now for some pictures ...

Hootin' Annie - that'll do nicely. To use in AA roll the gunner would need to stand outside to get the elevation. Otherwise, he can stay pretty much seated to fire that thing.

Pretty simple construction ...

... all just bolted into the base of the jeep. This doesn't show the travel lock - the long, angled bar that you can see in front of the gunner in the photo above.

These guys went a little bit too far - 37mm AT gun! This was a thing apparently - must of kicked like a buckaroo when they fired it.

Just plain silly...
Now back to bocage ...

Mannn! That’ll be years from now at BFs work rate ...

LOL. I'm sure that's what the Lord Protector thought whilst chopping off old Charlie Boy's head
Nice! Is that Falaise at his local skate-park back in the day?
Must be about time for another of your famed photo competitions, perhaps something to do with non-combat activities in the bocage - rollerblading, making tea, that sort of thing.

His name was Warty, he was quite naughty
With yellow feathers in his hat and a dress cut down to there
He would merengue and do the cha-cha ...
This is just a bit too silly - I shall now refrain from posting pictures of the plastic one.
 
@benpark @Falaise I did a quick experiment with trees and bushes leaves textures to see if each individual type could have several textures for leaves, and surprisingly they can! I'm not sure what I can do with this, maybe have one type of tree that has less leaves - might be more useful for autumn or spring to have trees with some leaves and some bare branches. There are caveats though: I noticed when I tried with a strong colour, the engine seems to display the trees and bushes with just one, or the other colour, until the camera moves quite close, then it can flick between the two colours or do other odd stuff. It may work differently on different GPUs or with different colours. I didn't notice it when I had natural leaf colours, so will have to take another look, perhaps with bare branches.

Oaky plane tree, notice the oak leaves top let and middle right

Oaky plane tree, quite well mixed

Oaky plane trees, but only the front two, the rest show just plane

Oaky plane trees, should all be mixed but very strange

A two tone bush
The numbering for the bmps was: tree-1-leaves 2.bmp and bush-2-leaves 2.bmp. I presume tree-1-leaves 3.bmp etc could also work, but I didn't try.
Anyway an intriguing discovery (at least to this foliage nerd 🌳).
 
 

Ah yes. To be clear, I was only just out of nappies (diapers) at the time, so this kind of cultural highlight was a bit over my head ... I was, however, fond of the odd Mars bar or two back then.

Busting the Bocage
"Sherman et bocage ne font pas bon ménage !!!"
"Sherman and bocage do not go together"
in french it sounds good!
it looks like a saying
A picture of every destroyed Sherman☹️







 

I think that you are getting confused with Dartford Mick and Mars Bar Marianne.

Not sure most of these will cut it - just the Panther IR and perhaps the Borgward ...







 
Please note - none of these are available as mods - yet ...