SaTyR

Btw. and a bit (actually a lot) OT: the net is full of pictures of tanks "ambushed by artillery". Heavy artillery pieces killing Tigers and such. Huge parts of their armor ripped of, gigantic holes in the sides. Whole convoys destroyed. IIRC such pictures can be seen at http://www.battlefield.ru/index.html . Can this be done in CMXX ? Anyone had a "heavy" or a "medium" tank killed by off-board artillery ? I don't know how common it was to destroy tanks in such a manner, but pictures (and the quantity of the pictures) seems to suggest that it could be and was done. Thoughts ?

I do. Sometimes a new, previously un-spotted enemy unit starts firing (HMG, IG, FO spotted artillery) and I let the poor sods crawl where they wan't to. They ARE under fire from a previously un-spotted, dangerous enemy. I'd crawl to the nearest cover if I we're in the same situation. OTOH, if I'm firing supressive fire against enemy HMGs, IGs and such, I usually replot the movement commands, even when under enemy fire. The same for crossing short patches of terrain where the enemy CAN fire and then getting into cover. The enemy may get a few shots here and there, but that ain't a reason to seek the nearest cover, crawling BACK to where they came (TOTALLY supressing enemies in foxholes takes TIME and firepower, which one might not have, how ever good the plan is/was). Run poor bastards RUN ! Run for your lives (literally) !

WOW ! Those scrapes, bumbs and near penetrations on the front armor and turret make the tank seem like it has seen a few battles already. Nice one. Keep 'em coming. And someone PLEASE mod the soviet light tanks (Don't even get me started on the Axis equipment...). I'm not saying that the original ones look awful, but the standard of these mods (wacky, noobie, sami and cheesy) is just so awesome, that they really stick out if/when installed. Pretty please with sugar on top ? [ October 21, 2002, 03:50 PM: Message edited by: SaTyR ]

And the *German Judges* are dying to have a second look "Bang on target !" [ October 16, 2002, 07:29 PM: Message edited by: SaTyR ]

Great work and thanks for the no slogan version (tho' the slogan looks great also) ! I'm still hesitant to install, waiting for more mods of the same(ish) colour scheme. One installed mod sticks a bit out, don't you think ? Still, great work. Tested it and liked what I saw. Keep 'em coming.

Bits of platoons, in other words, you had casualties set to random ? 3 platoons should have 9 FT's, but since you played with casualties, the teams were counted towards the set casualty %. All this assuming that you had casualties set at random. If not, I'm for one, amazed

Before whining that this attack can't succeed and that there's something wrong with the QB generator, think if it would in real life actually been even tried ? Across a terrain with non-existing cover ? I doubt it. And furthermore, how much time does it take to QUIT the battle and setup a new one (when, as you did, using all random setup) ? Less than a minute. Don't like the setup; start a new game. All random is just what it says, ALL random. Tweak the terrain settings a bit to get a more "realistic" attack terrain (or sumfink). I also agree that you need (close to or even greater) 3:1 odds when attacking (to succeed), but you actually need those odds only on the point where you decide to break through. The standard attack QB ratio is 1.5:1, so what ? Decide the breakthrough point and build up the odds. You decide how much of your forces to bring to that single assault, all enemy weapon systems CAN'T fire to every point of the map. "Global" odds aren't everything, or we wouldn't have seen the germans even try against the soviets now would we ? (Or the finns for that matter) Just thoughts. I've been very happy with the way the QB generator works. A few handmade adjustments and every game is "worth trying" (set the terrain settings by hand for example, and no more flat pooltable kind of terrain). QB's against the AI aren't the catch for me though, they just help me to learn, test and pass the time between the REAL games, versus a human opponent.

Support units, such as IG's, ATG's and FT's (and so on...) DO in fact have small arms and will defend themselves if an enemy comes too near. Seen this happen with FT's and guns, so why not tungsten ammo only ATR's (?). ATR's with HE, AP AND T will fire HE againts infantry if ordered, dunno if they have small arms tho' (seems probable).

3 FT's come with a german pioneer platoon early in the war. Maybe some of those 13 could be because of that ?

Just finished a TCP/IP QB, me as the finns defending against soviet assault, 1944 august, 1500pts (as the defender). Got my a$$ handed to me by soviet IS-2's, ISU-152 and the ever so deadly T-34/85 FLAME (that 100m range flame is MEAN). My opponent had 1 BA bogged (and immobilized), 1 knocked out by my 105mm artillery and 1 by my 75mm AT gun... and one T-34/85 bogged (and immobilized), everything else kept frying my a$$ through the game. My only shining moment was the infantry ambush of 1,5 platoons of finnish '44 infantry in a forest patch. Killed most of my opponents advancing pioneers and rifle squads. Then my brave men got toasted by the infernal T-34/85 FLAME My opponents plan was sound and worked out PERFECTLY (bringing heavy tanks in from the flanks in a heavy woods map and keeping them out of infantry assault range). My hat off to him Now even tho' I LOST (and it was ugly let me say) and as a finn had to watch my own incompetence result in finnish soldiers losing their lives (YES, I know, it´s only a GAME... but still ), I HAD FUN ! My heart was pounding so fast when I triggered the ambush on the advancing soviets and I almost tore my hair off watching my 75mm AT turn towards a T-34, racing against time, as the T-34 rattled by and onwards to cover. I had fun. And I've had fun with CMBB since I got it and started playing against other people. Nevermind defeats, attacking with just infantry against dug in positions on a pool table like terrain or losing a KV-1 to an 150mm IG at 700m first shot, straigh on. I´ve had fun. It's not the realism that makes the game fun or boring, it's how you play the game. Afterthought: next time defending with the finns, I'll whip out the tungsten pinecones and make my troops wear gloves on their finnfausts. That'll teach those pesky soviets in their oh-so heavy tanks [edited because it's 0520hrs in Finland, I'm tired and making typos like there's no tomorrow] [ October 13, 2002, 10:22 PM: Message edited by: SaTyR ]

I've played many QB's defending against AI assault (testing out the finns ) and had my FO team "disappear" due to pre-battle casualties. Now I now that this is realistic and I know that it´s pure luck (or bad luck, in my case), but DAMN it drives me mad, when my 150 (or so) point FO + fair amount of TRP's become a waste of points. Maybe the casualty calculations could be tweaked a bit, so that small teams do not suffer that much ? In a largish game a high casualty rate killing off teams (FO, FT, TH, whatever) is not a problem, because you usually have something to replace the loss, but small QB's suffer a lot. Now I know that "You can switch the setting to NONE if you don't like how it works", but I DO like the feature, I just think it needs a bit of tweaking. Luck's a lady and my smalltalk ain't that good, hence my misfortune and this silly rant

Hey ! I haven't received my 2nd copy yet ! Damn CDV, they're being stingy on this account too it seems. I'd like to have my doublewaffelgrenadiers with double cheese and hold the swastikas, please.

True. Played around a bit with SMG squads, they are perfect shock troops, but the ammo load is a bit of an issue. I came to the conclusion, that you need rifle armed squads to be the backbone of an attack and only assault with the SMG heavy squads. They are good for something like 2-3 assaults (and firefights after). I also give them covered arcs of only 40m or so, just so that they do not fire while Advancing (for example) and save their ammo for the assault (I usually remove the arcs at this point, so that they can fire a bit further while assaulting). Supressive fire is the key to a successful assault. On the defence SMG squads are lethal, but their ammo load limits their usefulness, IMHO. There have been many conversations about SMG squads and their light ammo loads. IIRC the ammo load was found realistic. And if I got this right, 1 "point" of ammo on SMG squads mean 1 burst (consuming more ammo faster than standard rifle fire) and so the clips get empty a tad bit faster than a rifle squad runs out of ammocombs (or whatever). Ie. they carry the same amount of ammo, only consume it differently. IMO the ammo amount is just right, enough to be useful when used correctly but if used the wrong way or in the wrong place, you can end up with 12 man strong squad 300m from the nearest enemy and LOW on ammo. Whether you think the ammo load to be just enough or lacking depends so much on your playing style. This said, the SMG squads use their ammo pretty darn fast no matter how you play, when the firefightr starts at point blank range just have to keep them in check a bit more carefully then Had a SMG platoon embark on T-34's, crashed through german line FAST and disembarked. Turned the wagons around and let the SMG squad close range FP and T-34 canister shots do the rest. Mopped up with rifle infantry and support weapons. Then repeated. Wonderful troops

Since we're talking about finns Played a small, 300 point QB against a combined arms russian assault. Funny thing happened. The russians had a flame tank of some sort (year 1941) and my Lahti ATR's couldn't penetrate even the sides. The map was quite open and I had nothing else to kill the tank with (and in a QB that small, you just don't have the manpower to suppres the enemy inf AND assault tanks). I sensed defeat. Suddenly along rumbled a tankette, parking nicely besides the flametank. Here's the funny part: my Maxim HMG opened up on the tankette, causing a catastrophic explosion and blowing up even the flametank Laughed and assaulted the remaining russians with my Sissi squads (those Suomi SMG's are brutal), routing 'em and earning me total victory. Sometimes pinecones and sticks aren't enough and you almost have to use real bullets

Don't actually care who's selling it and where, my PlayerOne ordered copy hasn't arrived. It was easy enough to order and pay (I had the luxury of paying via internet, Nordea Solo), but the delivery seems to be a bit more difficult case. Thanks for taking my money in advance, giving me hope that I should receive the game amongst the very first in Finland after a long wait whilst almost whole Europe was already playing and then not delivering (even CDV delivered the preordered copies on time, IIRC a day BEFORE the actual release date on some cases). What have I learnt ? Not to be greedy and overeager and just WAIT 'till the game I want hits the shelves. Seems to me that this way I can get the product faster, cheaper and more reliable. Sorry for the sad and (maybe) stupid whine, but I injured my hip during a football (yes, the european, real football, where you play the ball with your feet, hence the name... ) match and can't really move, I have no money (payday 15th) and I'm really disappointed. Thanks CDV, PlayerOne and finnish mail service. Going to go lie down and mummify, that seems to be the only thing I get to do this weekend...

If hope is all we have while rest of Europe is playing the game already, I can't help but to feel a bit screwed. But OTOH, when the game finally arrives, I'll most likely forget all my anger and evil thoughts about CDV and their release schedule and just play

Just a thought: if your playing games with small/medium size forces and have arty assets like 105mm and above, they are prabably not supporting only you, but the whole division/regiment/whatever. So to me the "waiting game" would sound a bit odd and unrealistic. You would have a battery of 150mm artillery supporting only your company's and tank platoon's advance. And that just doesn't sound right. I like the idea of smaller arty pieces, supporting a smallish force's battle as dedicated arty, to have their barrels pointed to a certain place and only waiting for the command to FIRE. The bigger ones would probably be needed somewhere else. But it would be quite hard to code something like this into the game (ie. how big are your forces and are the artillery assets dedicated or not depending on that). Now i'm no grog and this was just a thought, I'm really not familiar with WW2 forces and their dedicated artillery size/calibre/sumfink. Cheers

Yeah, thanks for the pics Mike8g ! Now how about some yyberFinns assaulting soviet heavies with just sticks and stones and aquavit ? Something in the lines of the (now)famous "SturmTiger re-designs the church" serie "YyberFinns assault the ISU-152" (pic1) "They throw the stone in the bushes to distract the beast, wash their faces with the Aquavit and SMASH the ISU with the stick" (pic2) "ISU explodes into an inferno of flames and molten metal" (pic3) True story that... Thanks again for the pics !

Last time I checked, scandinavia was part of Europe. I didn't get my copy of the game. The germans are the lucky ones who got the game early (those who pre-ordered). You lot in the US of A should get your's in the next few days. But we scandinavians will have to wait for our waffengrenadier and DVD-box mutilated copy of CMBB two more full weeks, maybe even longer. This just to say, that not all of us europeans are the lucky, LUCKY "CDV euros". :mad: But nevertheless, I'm gonna be happy as a teletubbie (?) when I get my hands on that shiny (?) DVD-box and see my first glances of the high-ress waffengrenadiers and their vehicles and then I'll forget 'em and start playing a QB with Finns against soviets ehem... Back to the topic 'tho: whine whine whine, didn't get my CMBB and now I'm gonna cry (boohoo)

Yes, and as your price you shall receive CMBB before any other forum member ! Congrats !

Thanks for the pics (the ones posted and the ones to come, hehee) ! And thanks for the extra tip on how to make 'em work (if, like in my case, they didn't bother to show up the normal way) ! Cheers and keep on posting pics !

"The cat is sticky"?</font>

QB with finns, for the obvious reasons Defending against the soviets. Then yelling: "HAKKAA PÄÄLLE !" at he top of my voice, scaring the neighborhood oldtimers while commanding the Stug(s) forward. Can hardly wait...

Hmmm... I'll have to see if I remember to drink anything during the first... 48 hours (?). Actually, I'll have to see if I remember to breathe during the first 48 hours of CMBB gaming...

Covered arcs are great ! In one tcp/ip game (Yelnia stare) I had my veteran germans ambush the oncoming russians near the (german side) left forest´s edge. My 81mm mortar FO fired at the first wave, sending them reeling back. Only on platoon leader survived/made it to the forest. My covered arcs were about 20m in lenght at 45 degrees angle. The russian platoon leader never wandered through the arcs, but took cover extremely near of one of my squads (approx. 15m) but the veterans kept on hiding and I got the next russian wave by surprise ! Their fire discipline was awesome. This coupled with the new EFOW really negates the "recon with one half squad" tactic (IMHO) because if you miss the ambushing line or the arcs even just a bit, you´re really in for a nasty surprise. Cheers