Splinty

Merry Christmas all! Slava Ukraine!

Merry Christmas all! Slava Ukraine!

Merry Christmas all! Slava Ukraine!

Merry Christmas all! Slava Ukraine!

Merry Christmas all! Slava Ukraine!

Merry Christmas all! Slava Ukraine!

Merry Christmas all! Slava Ukraine!

I'm a little out of date here. But in the '80s and early '90s, no we didn't train on semi indirect fires. We always used direct fire on Table VIII, Which was our qualification firing range. 

I'm a little out of date here. But in the '80s and early '90s, no we didn't train on semi indirect fires. We always used direct fire on Table VIII, Which was our qualification firing range. 

I'm a little out of date here. But in the '80s and early '90s, no we didn't train on semi indirect fires. We always used direct fire on Table VIII, Which was our qualification firing range. 

I'm a little out of date here. But in the '80s and early '90s, no we didn't train on semi indirect fires. We always used direct fire on Table VIII, Which was our qualification firing range. 

What makes you think that? I'm on that thread everyday. I've seen some less than accurate remarks, But no sign of unintelligent remarks that aren't called out by other posters.

Looks like Trump's opponents aren't giving up, and that's good news.

It seems to me that most people forget how humanly normal it is for the Ukrainians to be war-weary and somber, and to even question a positive outcome. But it is almost certainly TEMPORARY!
It is not only the longevity of the war, and the corresponding fear and stress that goes along with it, that creates this grim atmosphere. In my experience hope that doesn't get materialized tends to weigh heavier on most people's morale, than physical pain, fear, disappointment and other adversities.
And in this war the average hope before the summer offensive was very high, perhaps - in retrospect of course, unrealisticly high. The unexpected defeat of the Russian invasion, the sinking of the Moskva and the further humiliation of the Black Sea Fleet, the Wagner-uprising, the endless amount of video's and reports of exploding Russian vehicles and dead and dying Russian soldiers, and the large number of countries that gave material and/or financial support (Which in hindsight gave a false impression of the usefull amount of support. Ten countries donating 10 -20 tanks each sounds nice, but creates unrealistic hope.), all contributed to an understandable belief in succes.
In my opinion a sudden realisation that thing aren't nearly as rosy as expected, weighs people down. Mostly because rational thinking cannot cope very well with accepting the fact that our expectations were too high.
It just takes time. Whether the situation on the frontline stays as it is, or even when there are going to be more setbacks for the Ukrainians, this current "depression" will subside. The Ukrainian tenacity and unwielding fighting spirit just have a little understandable setback.
And to parafrase Schwarzenegger's famous quote: "They will be back".   

After reading the last few pages I have a sudden urge to give the ignore feature a try.
Let the record show, this is the first time I have ever used this feature on this forum.

I put him on Ignore as soon as I saw his User Name.

And readers can use Splinty's method anytime they want.

I put him on Ignore as soon as I saw his User Name.

Problem with banning these types is that it actually feeds their own sense of rightness.  "They are just stooges and shills of the establishment.  They cannot handle my truths."  The OP was trying to be clever by changing his handle but it is in fact very appropriate.  It is the exact same approach his namesake took.  This is a lot like arguing with a religious zealot or cultist.  They have wrapped their worth and identity around the idea.  Those are not bindings that logic or facts are ever going to break.
History shows the only way to break this sort of thing is to have to proven as the horrible idea that it is.  By "it" I mean insular/anti-truth frameworks that really only have one political objective.  Unfortunately by the time the idea is proven as horrible a whole lot of bad has to happen. 

Actually the same people who were attacking us in Iraq, were also blowing up gas stations full of civilians lined up waiting for gas, shooting up crowds of students waiting to sign up for school, and/or blowing up busloads of people heading out on a pilgrimage or the Hajj. So although they might be guerillas when they attacked Coalition forces. They were terrorists in every other sense of the word.

That argument is akin to what we heard here in the US when some people, both within government and without, defended the use of torture (kindly described as "enhanced interrogation techniques").
The "feeling of reality" is that should Ukraine decide to not adhere to conventions on warfare, despite Russia spitting on them, you'd see public support for Ukraine evaporate. And quickly. Also evaporating would be any hope of Ukraine being admitted to the EU and NATO in the future. 
We had lots of debate about things like this during Iraq and Afghanistan. We are (or at least try hard to be) the "good guys." You *cannot* lower yourselves into the gutter of the opposition. Is it going to cost you to do that? Yes, it most certainly is, in money, time and lives. And I fully acknowledge that in Iraq and Afghanistan we were not fighting for the survival of our country, and I sympathize and support the fact that you are. A better example might be WW2. We (the Allies) for the most part, behaved, knowing full well the Germans and Japanese did not (I'm excepting Russian behavior as part of the Allies here, because after all, that's who we are talking about and some things don't change much).
You'll no doubt be aware that soldiers accused of war crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan were highly publicized, and many put on trial. And the reason we know about it is that it was by FAR, the exception, and the fact that mostly we police our own. We're not perfect - far from it. But we do try. And it starts at the top with the communicated expectation of what won't be tolerated.
Dave

What makes you think that? I'm on that thread everyday. I've seen some less than accurate remarks, But no sign of unintelligent remarks that aren't called out by other posters.

Hey buddy. It is hard to resist I know. Forum SOP: Don't feed trolls.
I suggest to block people like him. I use the blocking option now for over 20 people on the forum. It just saves stress.
By the way, BFC UKRAINE THREAD needs no defense. It is of course a mixed bag but all the posts could be lashed together for a damn PhD thesis.
"Changing views on the Ukraine-Russia conflict of 2022~202X."

Actually the same people who were attacking us in Iraq, were also blowing up gas stations full of civilians lined up waiting for gas, shooting up crowds of students waiting to sign up for school, and/or blowing up busloads of people heading out on a pilgrimage or the Hajj. So although they might be guerillas when they attacked Coalition forces. They were terrorists in every other sense of the word.