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FoxZz

A plea for a French Army DLC

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9 hours ago, DerKommissar said:

I've always been a fan of french armoured cars. Armoured cars have been around longer than tanks, and it's good to see them evolving. It is also good to see the French army evolving.

My thoughts on the Jaguar:

- Level 4 protection is pretty good for such a vehicle.

- Optics and observation equipment looks stunning.

- 40mm seems to be the future.

- A remote MG for the commander!

- NBC systems are not forgotten!

- Internal missile storage is good, I am guessing they are reloaded from the inside? Hopefully they are easy to reload.

- It's REALLY tall, taller than the AMX or ERC. As a recon vehicle, it may be easier to spot and hit.

- It's very heavy. 25 tons is almost twice of all the previous ones. Lighter cars can better cross bridges and potentially off-road.

It's a jack of all trades. Standardization is great, and the main benefit of this vehicle. Yet, it doesn't master any of the roles it's replacing. VAB HOT has more missiles and AMX and ERC carry more potent guns. All that being said, I think they're on the right path. If they invest in modularity of this vehicle, it can fill those distinct roles better.

Yeah the Jaguar is 8 tons heavier than the AMX10RC, but protection is miles away from what it used to be, Level 4 is the base all around protection while it was the max frontal arc of the 10RC, mines protection has also increased dramatically. Bigger vehicles is a trend that you'll see everywhere in the industry and that's why the A400M program is so critical. The Griffon vehicle for example will also weight 25 tons, which is 10 tons more than the Ultima version of the VAB.

We will have to wait for the mobility trials, but it's indeed a point of concern on my side considering it's much heavier but remains on a 6x6 format. That being said, huge progress were made in the field of wheeled mobility,  and it also has a good power to weight ratio, so time will tell !

Its width was limited by the French rail transportation, otherwise it would've probably been larger. It's indeed almost 1 meter taller than the 10RC, although I suspect those figures to include the optic pods, which are quite tall. The hull is also higher because of different design choices on the chassis (mainly ease of maintenance, mine resistance and cost reductions).

I think it will have an outstanding situationnal awarness and recon capabilities, although, all those optics are quite exposed and could be easilly dammaged. But it's also a problem common with most vehicles today. I guess it's a tradeoff that you have to make if you want to have good SA. All crew members will have both an direct optic channel and a TV/thermal channel though, so there is a good redundancy.

What I would have liked is a coaxial MG for the gunner in addition to the RWS (and maybe a .50 RWS instead of a .30) , so it can use another weapon with more ammo if a shell isn't needed, a coaxial is also more protected than a RWS. MGs are actually used a lot by tank crews. I'm also disapointed that the longer range version of the MMP was postponed. It is a great missile, but it doesn't use the full potential of the platform considering it could have supported a much heavier missile. MMP is first and foremost and man portable missile. 2 ready to fire is enough I think, it's 8 distributed in a platoon, altough they could fit an additional 2 on the other side of the turret (I think it's planned for export). VAB HOT carried more, but it also needed direct LoS and and to stay put to fire, which isn't the case with the MMP (LOAL, F&F).

I'm curious what changes will be brought to the design after the trials.

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Hello guys,

Just a quick update, French army has just used for the first time the Bonus shell (I wrote about it in the OP) in operations. On the 3rd of December, French Artillery received the order to destroy a column of ISIS vehicles on the move, they fired 4 bonus shells from their CAESAR howizers and destroyed 8 technicals.

This happened near the town of Hajin in Syria (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Hajin,+Syrie/@34.4214663,40.7112374,10z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x154625b5eac1ec3f:0x7afb8d08c6f735f!8m2!3d34.6866678!4d40.8348715) French gun are only operating in Irak which means they fired over the border, which is at around 30kms of Irak. This means that it was quite a long range shot ! Maximum range of CAESAR guns is around 40kms.

Here is the French report :

 

I was wondering if such a shell could be modelled in CM:BS.

Edited by FoxZz

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I was this close to going out for the FFL when I got out, but heard they don't like Brits, Yanks or Canucks and would prefer Eastern Europeans who aren't used to NATO service culture.

Still, the AMX-10RC is a marvelous piece of kit.

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I fully agree with you FoxZz and Combatintman. The French Army and its equipments are not really well known to many peoples and that is unfortunate. I have tried to raise some interest from BF for including them in Nato. I think today that some lack of interest from quite a few potentials customers could be the main reason for not having convinced Steve. We have to understand that in order to do the French Army a lot of time will be needed. Since time and money are directly related, first in the making of a game and second in its sales, I do understand that as long as the balance tilts on the wrong side, it would be unwise to do the venture. That could cost a lot of money to BF, therefore preventing them or slowing them, to do the follow on of the games being asked by the customers following a well thought time schedule.

That is surely the way it is, till customers for the French Army would be so numerous that it will become a good choice.

Edited by snake_eye

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8 hours ago, DougPhresh said:

I was this close to going out for the FFL when I got out, but heard they don't like Brits, Yanks or Canucks and would prefer Eastern Europeans who aren't used to NATO service culture.

Still, the AMX-10RC is a marvelous piece of kit.

It's not really that they don't like them, it's more that westerners are "softer" and hence, don't adapt as easilly to the rough legion lifetsyle, as a result, there is lot more westerners giving up than easterners, especially when you consider that the pay while being crazy good for africans for example, will be quite low for americans. But those who manage to go through are perfectly integrated, furthermore, French work very often with Brits and US soldiers which means native English speakers will always be appreciated as they ease the communication process. Diversity of backgrounds is what makes FFL very effective.

More broadly I'm glad people are supporting the inclusion of French army in the game. And altough I don't expect much, I'll keep posting some interesting news from time to time to make people more familiar with French army and its capabilities. And maybe one day a surprise will happen haha.

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33 minutes ago, FoxZz said:

westerners are "softer" and hence, don't adapt as easilly to the rough legion lifetsyle,

It must be a rewarding challenge for the soft, western, French officers to lead their rougher more adaptable eastern troops.  Or have the French officers been replaced with more adaptable, rougher stock?     

Edited by MOS:96B2P

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1 hour ago, MOS:96B2P said:

It must be a rewarding challenge for the soft, western, French officers to lead their rougher more adaptable eastern troops.  Or have the French officers been replaced with more adaptable, rougher stock?     

Well officers are another matter altogether. There are a lot of sociological differences between officers and soldiers.

Officers are often coming from a military background, they often go through military lycées (high school) before going into military "prepa" which are cramm schools to prepare the competitive exams of the french elite "grandes écoles" among which is St-Cyr, the French army military academy. The cadets then choose their affectation according to their ranking, the best one choose first. Since the Legion is very prestigious, best offficers often choose Legion or Airborne. As a a result, officers that arrive in the Legion at 23 are often in a military environment, with a rough lifestyle and a lot of PE, since they're 16, being in the military is for them a life goal, it's their career. There is of course other ways and trajectories to become an officier in the french army, but in any case, physical level requirred for officers in general is very high because they're supposed to show example and lead from the front.

Regarding soldiers, French army is facing a similar problem than many other western armies which is "softer" youth, a military condition that requires a lot of sacrifices in a more and more individualistic society, and suffers from the private sector competition (no draftees anymore). As a result, a lot of efforts are put in adapting the training and the military lifetsyle to keep soldiers longer. In the meantime, the size of the FFL compared to the rest of the army is growing in part because being able to recruit out of this western pool negates this human ressources issues.

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Back when I was in my 20s I worked as a bike courier in DC.  One of my coworkers decided to join the Legion- no idea why.  His family was from Germany.  Well he joined and quickly found the glamorous lifestyle was nowhere to be found.  He met a member of his family near the border, they gave him his passport.  So ended the career of a legionnaire.

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On ‎4‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 9:00 AM, Combatintman said:

I beg to differ.

While there were a lot of failures, there were some pretty swept up French operations/actions in Indochina if you get past the Dien Bien Phu and GM-100 stories which dominate popular imagination of that conflict.

Then of course there is the Algerian conflict which the French military is widely recognised to have fought the FLN to brink of collapse.

Elements of the French Army deployed on Musketeer were recognised by the British participants to be far better equipped and far more experienced than many of their British equivalents for that type of operation.

You are nearly all the way right. I was in Algeria at the time of the war, younger to be in the Army but able to see many things. I also had many opportunities to meet Foreign Legion troopers and officers (quite a few German) and other regular officers that had returned from Indochina, either when the troops left or when they were liberated from the Viets POW's camps. Yes, the FLN had been brought to a near collapse. The Army had its share, but also the special Ops that triggered an FLN Blue on Blue internal fight, many thinking that others were traitors, they killed each other leaders. That was an almost untold dirty war. today the French Army is highly regarded for its intervention in Mali and Syria. The Air Force was able to deploy their attack fighters and troops in Mali few years ago within a delay never achieved d by the US. They did recognize it humbly.

LLF do not have the French fighting the US in your scenario, that is not credible !  Close things might happen in a battleground, but Coms are there to prevent Blue on Blue and fratricide errors.

Edited by snake_eye

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3 hours ago, sburke said:

Back when I was in my 20s I worked as a bike courier in DC.  One of my coworkers decided to join the Legion- no idea why.  His family was from Germany.  Well he joined and quickly found the glamorous lifestyle was nowhere to be found.  He met a member of his family near the border, they gave him his passport.  So ended the career of a legionnaire.

Sburke, once you get into the Foreign Legion,being a foreigner,  they keep all your papers, like passport, Id cards ………..If you leave before your term you are researched as an AWOL at least or a deserter at the best. You better not be found on a French soil later on.

Edited by snake_eye

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9 hours ago, snake_eye said:

today the French Army is highly regarded for its intervention in Mali and Syria. 

That is why I am supporting a French army DLC for both CMBS and CMSF2:

. In the context of CMSF2: The old cavalry with VAB, ERC-90 Sagaie, AMX-10 RC, ...

. In the context of CMBS: The new stuff coming VBCI, VBMR, all the Scorpion program (Jaguar, Griffon, ...)

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It's not like the Canadian (or US, or Australian, or UK etc. etc.) Army is "soft", so much as I think we've moved past beatings and hazing as discipline and rucking until socks are bled through as effective PT. 

Still, the French Army has a great TOE and OOB and would be great in game. ;)

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1 hour ago, DougPhresh said:

It's not like the Canadian (or US, or Australian, or UK etc. etc.) Army is "soft", so much as I think we've moved past beatings and hazing as discipline and rucking until socks are bled through as effective PT. 

Still, the French Army has a great TOE and OOB and would be great in game. ;)

It's not about the army but more about the society we live in. For example, living in Ukraine is much harsher than living in Canada.

Yeah hope more armies make it into CM:BS, it's a great game, would be even better with more diversity.

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16 hours ago, snake_eye said:

Sburke, once you get into the Foreign Legion,being a foreigner,  they keep all your papers, like passport, Id cards ………..If you leave before your term you are researched as an AWOL at least or a deserter at the best. You better not be found on a French soil later on.

Yep, that's why he met his family that had one and left the country. Paris is not on his list of places to visit again apparently.

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