daz Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 (edited) Hi I brought the game when it first came out and it had a lot of bugs in it, battle front did upgrades for the bug fix and they where free. I tried to play a game the other day vs a mate, but he was using 3.0 upgrade and we could not play, so i went on to the BATTLE FRONT site as i have done in the past and upgraded to 2.11 at no cost. Now they want you to pay for 3.0 upgrade! Edited August 29, 2015 by daz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Jack Ripper Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Patches, which include bug fixes, are free. Upgrades, which include new game engine features and improvements, cost money. You've been a forum member since 2006, yet you only have a problem with this now? That's just how it is, complaining about it won't get Battlefront to give you free stuff they've spent time, resources, and effort to produce. Don't like it? Don't buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Your friend can install a second copy of the game and patch it up to 2.11 so he can play against you. Or he might just give you the $10 to get the upgrade 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 From the start BFC had said they would occasionally upgrade existing titles to keep them current for a nominal fee. And that's what they did. The alternative to this is not 'doing it for free', the alternative is not doing it at all. These upgrades were a freakin' lot of work to do. Tons of new feature coding and new artwork to generate. The entire staff working on these things full time. No business model can survive simply giving away four months+ of hard labor for free. The price of these upgrades is insignificant. You leave the house and come back two hours later minus $10 in your wallet and can scarcely remember what you spent it on. Oh yeh, that burrito and x-large Coke at the lunch counter that you've already forgot about. I recall another poster recently complaining that BFC doesn't provide 'Amazon rewards points' for purchasing their products. And posted an angryface emoticon to show his displeasure. Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warts 'n' all Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Maybe one day you'll tell your boss "I don't want my pay this month, you keep it.".. No, I didn't think so.... BFC are a pretty small company and they have to pay their staff. They give us a bloody good deal in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz Posted August 29, 2015 Author Share Posted August 29, 2015 Hi I understand why they charge for packs that is understandable, when i brought the game CBMN i patched the game a few month later from 1.0 to 2.0 at no cost, the other day as i said i wanted to play a game vs a mate, But was unable to play as he had 3.0 game. "OK" so i went to patch my game up to 3.0 and found out that you have to pay $10.00 now, i can understand for pack, they are a lot of work to do, but having to pay for the 3.0 is a bit of a joke. So what if a game came out that was full of bugs and then your told sorry we screwed up and if you want the game to work as it should you have to pay use more money to get it to work, would you be happy with this. Daz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootie Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Yes initially the games are expensive to purchase but its a game that lasts a lifetime... its not like you complete it and put it on eBay. I have clocked thousands of hours playing the CM games and in my opinion money well spent and well worth supporting the company financially if need be. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 (edited) As others have noted daz, 3.0 is not a patch. It is an upgrade, an important distinction. You did not patch from 1.0 to 2.0, you upgraded. 2.11 was a patch. The fact that you didn't have to pay had more to do with BF adapting. As to the difference between 1.0 to 2.0 etc. BF had long ago stated how they would handle versions. They would not support older ones so 1.0 would never get another patch. In the process they are trying to figure out how best to handle this for their customers. You may notice that there is now a new configuration. When you buy 3.0 it has ALL the modules. If you buy just CMBN, they are all still there. When you buy MG afterwards, you are just buying a license and do not have to now download the game. It is a process that again is adapting. BF has always been clear about the difference between patches and upgrades and costs. It is on you the buyer to inform yourself about what to expect on your purchase. The 3.0 upgrade was a lot of work and added a lot of new stuff. if it were just fixing bugs, it would have been free. Your complaints are a bit mis directed. Below are just some of the new features that 3.0 includes Graphics Hit impacts to vehicles and bunkers now shown graphically ("hit decals") Water animates for fording units Improved shaders Gameplay Ground units are now able to fire at attacking aircraft Ammo Dumps allow platoons to have reserve ammo stored separately on map (automatically distributed for certain Skill Levels) WeGo TCP/IP with the ability to save but not the ability to replay combat action Spotters restricted to directing only one Mission at a time. Assets can now be group fired. More realistic/varied RoF of automatic weapons. Improved load time for scenarios, especially larger ones with complex terrain User Interface Three different sets of camera controls; Standard (traditional), First Person Shooter, and Real Time Strategy Optional graphical Command and Control link tracing KIAs are shown in the Soldier/Crew Panels to track soldiers lost during the game Option to disable music separate from other game sounds Editor Ability to create AI Triggers that execute actions based on other units or interaction with Objectives (existing battles do not have this, but it can be added by authors if they wish) Maximum map size increased Improved responsiveness of 2D editing, especially for large maps Improved load time for 3D Preview, especially large maps Customized "Mod Tags" for most graphics. This allows for multiple mods for the same item without the need to move items in/out of Data folder Ability to specify specific mods be used for a specific Scenario. If CM fails to find the specified mod it will use the default Edited August 29, 2015 by sburke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 sburke has listed out the differences between patches and upgrades quite nicely. You are not paying for bug fixes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Williams Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Daz, as you can probably tell by now, this type of whine isn't going to get you far here on these forums. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Daz, as you can probably tell by now, this type of whine isn't going to get you far here on these forums. For what it is worth, I think most folks would complain about paying for a patch. In this case I think it is mostly a matter of information and a misunderstanding about what 3.0 is.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
operating Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Ya know, I was in agreement with the original poster of this thread at first, but paid attention to what others had to say and for good reasons. Have seen good games "die" from simply going broke cause they did all the patches/expansions for free (somebody had to spend the time to do programing), however when I read about an expansion and how an expansion is explained here by some, really gave me room for thought, especially where the expansion is so inexpensive $10.00, compared to other games Often in the $30.00 neighborhood. Yes, if you bought a new game this week only to find out an expansion was released the next week for an unexpected cost, I might freak-out then, but if has been awhile between game release and an expansion and I like the game, it certainly would be easier to dig up some dough to pay for it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Yeah t is somewhat of a differ model than some games. BF has committed to bringing features included in new releases and back porting them to older game releases. CMBN has the same feature set as CMRT despite being released several years later, though it does take work to do that and hence a cost. As an example when CMFI was released, it include for the first time normal maps. Instead of leaving those who had CMBN with a lesser game, BF then brought all the new stuff in CMFI over to CMBN, and it wasn't just a little bit. http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2047&Itemid=517 The interesting thing was v2.0 was followed up relatively quickly by the free patch 2.01 The alternative is BF could have just left CMBN at 1.0, fixed bugs but added none of the new stuff. 2.0 Upgrade list Game User Interface Improvements: - Waypoint dragging. A waypoint can be clicked on and moved by dragging it to a new location. - Hotkey Unit Groups. Select units and assign them to number keys for quick navigation during gameplay. To change the camera's location press Alt and the number of the group you want to navigate to. The camera relocates and the highest level unit of that group is automatically selected. In Iron Mode, only HQs can be assigned to hotkey unit groups. - Grouped Spacebar Command system. Instead of getting all of the commands in a big list when the Spacebar is used, instead you get four groups of commands: Movement, Combat, Special, and Administrative. Selecting one of these presents the Commands specific to that Commands Group. The existing graphical Commands Panel now mimics this same behavior. This new feature not only makes it easier to find the Command you're looking for, and keep straight which ones are can be co-assigned to a Waypoint, but it also allows for more than 9 Commands per Command Group (a v1.0 limitation). General User Interface improvements: - New Load New Game dialog screen. The list of scenarios can now be sorted by size, length, or alphabetically. Details are presented in text form instead of icons. - New Saved Game dialog screen. The list of scenarios can now be sorted by newest file, oldest file, or alphabetically. You can also filter between single player saves and PBEM saves. Save games can be deleted from this screen instead of having to flip back and forth between the game and your desktop. - Visual Hotkey binding. A new dialog allows you to specify and view key assignments. Players can still manually edit and exchange Hotkey.txt files as before. - Special Equipment icons enlarged for better readability. The enlargement reduces the number of icons from 12 to 6. Multiple items of a single type of equipment are now represented by a single icon with a number specifying how many of that item the unit has. Editor Improvements: - Auto-Assemble linear terrain tool. Roads, walls, fences, and hedges can now be automagically drawn across the map instead of placing them one tile at a time. The old manual selection interface still exists to allow tweaking specific Action Spots. - BMP map overlay. Instead of having to create game maps by freehand you can now trace over a real world map within the Editor. Four different levels of transparency make the process easier by adjusting for different needs as work progresses. - More AI Groups. The number of AI Groups available has been increased from 8 to 16. This allows for greater fidelity of AI Plans and their assigned units. - Copy and paste AI Plans. Create a solid AI Plan, copy it, and paste it into an unused AI Plan slot. Once done the copied Plan can be modified to make a unique variant without having to build the Plan up from scratch. - improved terrain elevation/contours, smoother and more intuitive. - Ability to assign special uniform types for select units types on a unit by unit basis. Gameplay improvements: - Target Armor Arc Command. Instructs units to engage only armored units within the specified arc. As with nearly every Command, outcome varies greatly depending on unit quality and battlefield conditions. - Target Briefly Command. Tells a unit to fire all it's guns on a designated spot for 15 seconds, then cease fire. Conserves ammo and reduces the need for player management when short suppressive fire is the desired outcome. - Expanded floating icon categories. New unique icons have been added for Ammo Bearer, Recon, Engineer, Air Controller, LMG, Light Truck (Antitank), Light Truck (Heavy Weapon), Light Tank, Tankette, Infantry Gun, Shelter Bunker, AT mines. - FoW floating icons. FoW floating icons. Instead of getting a general area "?" icon and then immediately progressing to an accurate 3D representation, now there is an inbetween stage where you get a icon that represents the general category of enemy unit and no 3D representation. This tells the player "you know roughly what the unit is, but nothing more specific than that." - Canister rounds. New game code properly simulates these special anti-infantry munitions. Although not very commonly seen, they are extremely effective when used properly. Multiplayer Improvements: - Pausable RealTime option. A player can request a Pause and, if the other player agrees, the game is Paused until both players request an end to it. Pauses can be "Playable" (Commands can be issued/modified), "Viewable" (navigation is allowed, but no Commands issued/modified), or "Locked" (no navigation, no Commands issued/modified). The different pause types reflect the different reasons for requesting a pause. Graphics improvements: - Improved rendering. Normal and Bump mapping allows for more texture detail while using less system resources and improving the pressure on framerates. - Expanded Soldier details. A completely new way of assigning models and textures allows greater flexibility and variety of how Soldiers look in the game. It also allows for more flexible Modding possibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weapon2010 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Well Daz, Your "mate" paid for the 3.0 upgrade?maybe you should ask him about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 probably a good time to wrap this one up. Either a rational explanation has changed Daz's perspective or it hasn't. Either way there is no place for this to go but down. The longer these threads go on, the greater the chance of it devolving into negative stuff. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warts 'n' all Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 (edited) Also. we are free to choose what we we buy and what we don't. I don't get a constant stream of e-mails from BFC telling me to buy this or buy that new product. Personally I'm getting so much pleasure from v.2.12 it will be sometime before I upgrade to v.3. Then when I do that, I'll make my choice as to whether I get the vehicle pack and battle pack etc at the same time. Edited August 30, 2015 by Warts 'n' all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Williams Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 For what it is worth, I think most folks would complain about paying for a patch. In this case I think it is mostly a matter of information and a misunderstanding about what 3.0 is..Good point. My apologies, Daz.Patches are free. Upgrades cost money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waclaw Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Good point. My apologies, Daz. Patches are free. Upgrades cost money. This is semantics / pragmatics - for me, "upgrade" is payable patch;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Boy, that makes zero sense. So far BFC has been pretty consistent if they call it a patch it just has bug fixes. If they call it an upgrade it just adds features that were not in the game before. I don't see why you guys insist on wilfully ignoring the evidence and making yourselves unhappy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Yep, and the descent into the rabbit hole begins. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waclaw Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 (edited) You can even call it a "gift from heaven" - for me, I repeat again, for me - it is payable patch. Content defines the product. For me, the content of the product does not deserve to be called the upgrade Edited August 31, 2015 by waclaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinaldi Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Yep, and the descent into the rabbit hole begins. Oh you mean this thread would eventually devolve into inane babbling and senseless appeals to completely change their sale model? I never would've seen that coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 You can even call it a "gift from heaven" - for me, I repeat again, for me - it is payable patch. Content defines the product. For me, the content of the product does not deserve to be called the upgrade Fair enough. And for me $10 doesn't deserve to be called a charge. It is a "suggested donation". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Fair enough. No way, this kind of distorting of the facts does not deserve a "fair enough". Sorry I'm not upset at you but this kind of sophomoric statement deserves no quarter You can even call it a "gift from heaven" - for me, I repeat again, for me - it is payable patch. Content defines the product. For me, the content of the product does not deserve to be called the upgrade As the saying goes you are entitled to your opinion but you are not entitled to the facts. So you can have the opinion that you don't like playing for upgrades but you cannot justify calling it a patch. Wikipedia had a couple of nice definitions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patch_(computing) A patch is a piece of software designed to update a computer program or its supporting data, to fix or improve it.%5B1%5D This includes fixing security vulnerabilities%5B1%5D and other bugs, with such patches usually called bugfixes or bug fixes,%5B2%5D and improving the usability or performance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upgrade Upgrading is the process of replacing a product with a newer version of the same product. In computing and consumer electronics an upgrade is generally a replacement of hardware, software or firmware with a newer or better version, in order to bring the system up to date or to improve its characteristics. So feel free to have the opinion that you do not want to pay for upgrades and you can vote by not buying them. That is fair enough. But you cannot justify claiming that they are charging for patches. They are not those are the facts. Writing your own definitions is not something you are entitled to do. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waclaw Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 When I was a kid, my country was communist "paradise". every day we see on television about our successes, we are a great military power, metallurgy, agriculture and our friendship with the Soviet Union - and, of course, what a great evil is the USA - has been written about it in the newspapers, taught about this in school. You know what I mean? fix are called patches patches are called upgrade modules are called games (Battle of the Bulge) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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