Map uploaded: xix_corps_center_4x4km_jul44_no_ai_master

[Broadsword56]

Just uploaded this to the Repository.

The earlier WIP discussion for this map can be found in this thread:

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=97115&highlight=carillon

Here's the readme:

xix_corps_center_4x4km_jul44_no_ai_master

The name tells the story:

1. This map covers the center 4km x 4km zone of the U.S. XIX Corps in the July 1944 campaign for Saint-Lo. For those wanting to know exactly where it is, some coordinates are:

Upper left corner:

Latitude 49.180033

Longitude -1.086301

Lower left corner:

Latitude 49.144603

Longitude -1.100560

The map has been rotated clockwise, to match the orientation of a particular wargame hexmap (more on that later). So, true north is actually NNW on this map.

The west zone is being covered by LongLeftFlank’s W.I.P. master map of the “La Meauffe-Le Carillon” area, a 2.5 km wide x 3km deep battleground of the 137th Infantry, 35th ID. That’s the east bank of the Vire River from Le Meauffe to the Pont Hebert-St Lo highway.

It is hoped eventually to map the zone east of the Isigny-St. Lo Highway, to cover the remainder of the corps area where the 29th ID and part of the 2nd ID fought in the July 1944 battles. This map will wait until we have the Fallschirmjaeger module, since those were the principal Germans in that sector.)

2. The map contains no AI and it’s a “master” map. That means it has no objects on it, except for forests and major churches with steeples (more on that later). What is does have is a highly accurate terrain, with elevations and tile placements painstakingly researched using Google Earth, French 1947 aerial photos, and other reliable sources.

The major roads, departmental roads, and principal minor roads are all in place. And virtually every hedgerow in the sector is marked with placeholder tiles of XT grass and/or weeds. (What’s nice about this is you don’t really see the bocage lines in-game, but you see them clearly in the editor, so you can “paint by numbers” to quickly place the borders you want to use. Or, just skip the bocage entirely if you want to use this map as a starting point for non-bocage projects.)

The smallest roads (dirt paths between fields, sunken farm lanes, etc.) are not placed. It seems better to deal with that level of detail when you’re customizing a smaller mapped area for a scenario.

Why did I go to all this trouble to make an enormous historical master map?

I wanted to be able to use the board wargame, “St.-Lo” as an operational layer for CMBN tactical battles. As the operational game plays out, specific interesting battles can be set up as CMBN scenarios. The results can be transferred back up to the operational game, and so on.

This map is too large to be fully detailed with objects. As it is, even the master map takes a good while to load. So to make your detailed battle maps, you can either cut down the boundaries to a smaller size and save it with a new name, or -- what I plan to do -- save a copy of the master map at full size (let’s call it “battle_1”), then detail just the smaller battle area within it.

By keeping the entire 4x4km map active, you can:

Use the map editor to designate your battle boundaries with rows of “Landmark” dots:

NW NNNNNNN NE

W E

W E

SW SSSSSSSSSS SE

You can also place rows of land mines along the boundaries to*“enforce” the boundaries for HTH play.

Setup zones go within the battle area, but here’s what’s cool about the master map: You can also paint some special setup zones or place units outside the battle area. A good use of this is to put German FOs in the church steeples and at vantage points from higher elevations. They will, as they did historically, be able to see over the bocage and spot for accurate artillery fire -- something they are seldom able to do from ground level on normal CMBN maps.

You could even place your off-map artillery on the master map, although I think the game handles off-map artillery well enough and this doesn’t seem necessary to me.

When one battle is done, you can do a “save as” and call the new map “battle_2.” Now add another play area and detail that one, deleting whatever objects and detail you no longer want. You can continue this way, either until you’ve filled the entire 4 x 4 km, your computer explodes, or you’ve played through the entire map and are ready to march into Saint-Lo itself.

Enjoy the map, and please share your feedback and experiences with it on the BFC forums.

--Broadsword56

Aug. 13, 2011

[Broadsword56]

Also just uploaded to greenasjade CM mods site:

Link:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/cmmods-zips.greenasjade.net/CMBN/xix_corps_center_4x4km_july44_no_ai_master.zip

[RockinHarry]

...just test loaded it and as anticipated, OOM error struck again when trying the 3D preview. Stopped at 43% loading, so it appears it has slightly less memory demands than GeorgeMCs Orlovka/Huge rolling hills map (36% OOM). Hopefully BFC gets the OOM issue fixed anytime soon.

[Broadsword56]

Be sure to quit CMBN completely, restart the program, then launch the editor and the map. This seems to clear the memory and release whatever "hold" a previous file may have had on it. The only time I've gotten an OOM error is if I've tried to load this map immediately after closing a saved battle, for example. Once the master map is loaded, I find it scrolls and zooms smooth as silk. The only thing to bear in mind is a bit longer than usual loading time.

[Aragorn2002]

Loaded allright with me. Pretty fast too. Doesn't help RockinHarry, but just would like to mention it.

[RockinHarry]

During past weeks investigated and tried everything to load the Orlovka map, so currently there´s nothing left to try, unless BFC gives some hints or gets the game patched again.

Just out of curiosity, what´s you guys beeing able to load Orlovka and XIX corps center maps, system specs?

Me guesses it´s not WinXP (32 bit) and 2 Gigs of Ram...

[Broadsword56]

Just out of curiosity, what´s you guys beeing able to load Orlovka and XIX corps center maps, system specs?

Me guesses it´s not WinXP (32 bit) and 2 Gigs of Ram...

The XIX Corps center map was created and runs on my desktop PC:

4MB RAM

Vista 32 bit

AMD dual-core CPU

Nvidia 9800 something or other video card with 1GB on it.

It was a screamer 4 years ago when I got it, but it would be a very moderate system in gaming terms for 2011.

[kipanderson]

Hi,

Another piece of great work.

Congratulations... stunning .

I am a great fan of operations, using CM for operational settings and games so certainly do appreciate the effort. Extremely generous to make your work available to all.

Thanks.

All the best,

Kip.

[LemuelG]

Be sure to quit CMBN completely, restart the program, then launch the editor and the map.

Hmm, I notice this a lot - you preview your map, exit, when you try to scroll around it drags and chops until you cry and reload it - for the record that's all I do, save/load and that fixes it.

I'm gonna check out your map, should have it loaded by sometime tomorrow

[LongLeftFlank]

I too am getting OOM and crash when I try to preview this map. Locks out at 43%

[RockinHarry]

I too am getting OOM and crash when I try to preview this map. Locks out at 43%

What´s your system specs?

[Heckenschütze]

Same prob here. I even downsized the map to approx 1000x1000 and I still get a CTD - that's quite strange.

System: Intel Core II CPU 6600 @ 2.40 GHz 2.39GHz

RAM: 4 GB

System: Win7, 64-bit

Display adapter: ATI Radeon HD 5700

However, thank you broadsword for your efforts. Creating this huge map must have been a nice piece of work!

[Heckenschütze]

Problem solved. After rebooting everything works fine now. Many thanks again broadsword for this fine map!

[Broadsword56]

Thanks for your kind words. Another reminder -- be sure to refresh/flush out your system memory with a fresh launch of the game before loading this map, and you should be fine if you've got a decent medium-spec computer and video card.

[blow56]

Doesn't work for me, despite rebooting, reloading or anything else.

AMD Athlon 64x2 Dual Core 4600+

2.41Ghz

2GB RAM

Windows XP

Nor can I reduce the size of the map since even that seems to take a long, long time. Any way you can throw out a pair of 2kmx2km versions for us PBIs stuck in the computer bocage? I know I can handle that size.

[RockinHarry]

Doesn't work for me, despite rebooting, reloading or anything else.

AMD Athlon 64x2 Dual Core 4600+

2.41Ghz

2GB RAM

Windows XP

Nor can I reduce the size of the map since even that seems to take a long, long time. Any way you can throw out a pair of 2kmx2km versions for us PBIs stuck in the computer bocage? I know I can handle that size.

Still the same for me. It´s now up to BFC "fixing" this.

[fire11]

In editor, the file is there, but when I ask to load it nothing happens, not even the name comes up. I have waited and nothing at all happens.

[Broadsword56]

It's interesting (and disappointing) to see what widely varying results you all are getting. I've gotten many favorable reports from those who can load the map. Others can't load it at all. I have no idea what the issue might be, other than its size and people's different computer specs.

[Broadsword56]

Fire11 and others:

Just another thing I wanted to mention, to make sure you understand how to use this map file.

This is just a map and a map only. It's not a scenario. You can see a 3D preview from the editor but you won't be able to use it in a game unless you create a scenario that uses it. So to use it, you have to open the Editor, select "map" and load the file. Once it's open in the Editor you can then use it as the map in a new scenario file, save the scenario with a distinct name, and then use the map in-game.

[RockinHarry]

It's interesting (and disappointing) to see what widely varying results you all are getting. I've gotten many favorable reports from those who can load the map. Others can't load it at all. I have no idea what the issue might be, other than its size and people's different computer specs.

I´d be interested in a summary of system specs of those who can load and those who can´t.

OS (32 or 64 Bit)

Ram

Graphics adapter + driver versions

Mainboard

...

background tasks running

and so on

[The Steppenwulf]

Broadsword, this is intriguing work; As a newbie to CM but an experienced games modder I see some potential with where you would like to go with this. In fact I took an interest in CM for its potential to support a dynamic multiplayer campaign. Indeed a similar type of idea to the St Lo wargame which has apparently inspired this effort. At the moment I'm searching for a tack with which to develop my ideas and this looks like a strong starting point. I would be interested to know two things:

1) How did you manage to create a map that is bigger than the editor supports? This isn't immediately obvious to me so I apologise if it is common knowledge. Did you do this externally of CM and then convert the files to .BTT format? If so how -.MPM format tools par chance?

2) You suggested, at least somewhere that I've read, that you may have a larger map under development. What is the current status with this? And how large is the map proposed? Naturally I see the apparent limitations with large scale mapping within the editor BUT I'm thinking outside the editor (box) !!! That's where it might just get interesting!!! Thanks in advance for any response/s to this post!!

[Broadsword56]

Thanks for the comments! The master map is supportable by the editor but apparently not playable in its full size in the game, once objects are added. I made it entirely in the game's editor, no fancy tricks there. I don't have a larger map under development, but LongLeftFlank has been working on an a similar concept master map that adjoins mine on the west edge and takes it out another several km. Once we have the next module (which gives us the German paratroop units), I may make another master map that extends this one to the east end of the XIX Corps boundary. The idea with all of these is that you play a campaign using another wargame (a boardgame, typically) and then wherever there's a battle you like, you pause the boardgame and set up that battle on an area of your master map. You have to then cut in the edges of your battle map to just the needed area, and then place all the objects, bocage, etc., using the master map as your pattern. I find I can make a great-looking battle map this way in about 5 days to a week. The most tedious part is laying down all the bocage lines along the dark green lines of the master map. But after that it's very easy and fun.

[sburke]

I can vouch for the quality of the maps. They are really nice. Nice enough I'd suggest Broadsword started creating maps with a donation site. Maps on order! LOL

Seriously the two I have had the good fortune to try out are both top of the line. Hopefully Broadsword you can release them as you feel comfortable with them individually or possibly later as a set.

[JSB]

I did'nt manage to see the 3D preview of your map (OOM at 36%)

My specs are low (Athlon 64 3400+, 3Go RAM, Geforce 6600, and Win XP), but I can handle a 2,4x2,8km map with much more elevation points and details (buildings, trees, hedges...) than your master (which I know is almost 3 times bigger than mine).

[The Steppenwulf]

Thanks for the swift reply Broadsword and I found it most interesting to read your responses to my queries.

"The master map is supportable by the editor..."

I don't see a 4km size map being possible - 2160m x 2160m appears to be the max size. How did you circumvent this? Apologies if I've missed something obvious - my flirtations with the editor are merely that at the moment.

"The idea with all of these is that you play a campaign using another wargame..."

Well yes, and this is somewhat in line with my own thought process- hence the interest in your work due to the like-mindedness. However, such an idea is merely the tip of a much greater possibility I have in mind:

This would involve writing a program that takes care of the wider campaign (campaign master map) outside of the battle map. Such a program would invoke a large theatre map (perhaps around 20 km frontage and anywhere nearly as deep). The program would merely keep track of formation positions and their changes at company level and upwards, as well as logisitics and supply information etc.. Once units came within contact range (2km = battle map size) a scenario battle map could then be generated from the master map. As a programming buff I'm able to envisage how to develop such a stand-alone program, or indeed poss even a 3rd party application.

Naturally, before actually drafting anything I'm eager to grasp what other modders know and can do with CM mapping and their knowledge of the .btt format:

1) Ideally, I would like more information about the .btt format. Is this just a compressed set of .bmp files? I suspect that it is - since the file signature is similar to .mbm format which are just .bmp files stiched together. Without giving too much away re my thought direction, if I understood the format better and I acquired a tool or script that could extract and archive the files, a prospective program could take on an altogether more sophisticated function.

2) This mapping of yours. I understand that you have used accurate topographical information to generate your map. I know well how this is done in theory (as its application has been adopted in many contemporary games), but I'm interested to know if this is the method that you have adopted to achieve the accuracy in your map, and if not, then how did you manage to produce it? (I know some of your work is done by hand - this is inevitable in game mapping - but I'm interested in the main topographical features, terrain heights, roads, rivers etc..)

I get the impression that you can't help me with 1), but I thought it useful to mention anyway as one of my burning queries- should anyone stumble on this post/thread and be in a better position to offer some insight.

Again Broadsword, much appreciation in anticipation of a reply.