black_prince Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 I don't know if this has been brought up before but I havn't been able to find an existing thread regarding this. I find the night battles rather irksom and unrealistic due to the lack of any illuminating aids. In CMSF this wasn't really a problem due to the ubiquity of NVGs (at least for the blues). In a WW2 setting however, I do feel that night time missions are missing a very important element. Ideally, I would like to see starshells for indirect fire weapons and flairs carried by some units, possibly activated by a command similar to target smoke. I have no idea of what this would involve in terms of programming but I thought it was worth asking about. Is this something that is under consideration for inclusion in future modules? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 This has, indeed, been done to death. Then revivified, killed, burned at the stake, recycled as firelighters and revived again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black_prince Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 I assume then that the answer to my question is no. Sorry, I shall look harder next time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 I assume then that the answer to my question is no. Sorry, I shall look harder next time. Might have been be tricky to find in this case, since IIRC, the long, convoluted and humourously passionate thread was in the CMSF forum before we had a CMBN section 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoex Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Don't know if you mean this thread, but it's a nice read anyway... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Don't know if you mean this thread, but it's a nice read anyway... That is indeed the one I was thinking of 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black_prince Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 Ok, that thread wasn't quite the well reasoned back and forth of why flares should/shouldn't be included that I was expecting but after reading Longleftflanks comment about straining CPUs I can certainly see why they don't feature. If it's a choice between illuminating rounds and smooth running, then forget the illume. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 That was odd: I was just doing a chore and suddenly felt an overwhelming compulsion to open a web-browser and go directly to this thread! Perhaps it was a FLARE-up of clairvoyance? Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoex Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 To be FLARE with you, I must admit I had a hunch you were going to show up here sooner rather than later, Ken... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Other Means Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 I usually see by the light of my burning tanks. It's pretty, in its way. Hopefully illum rounds will make it in at some point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black_prince Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 Not a bad suggestion but I usually hope it won't come to that. If Churchill Crocodiles make it into the CW module as has been rumoured, I suppose a few human candlewicks could also be improvised. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 In a quite horrid wat, showing how terrible these weapons could be, in addition to the flame-thrower effects, there were multiple accounts of men having their phosphorus grenades get struck by bullets. These impacts would cause the grenade to start burning - while strapped to the man. While they screamed for their buddies to shoot them, the attack would stall while everyone watched the horror. Real men, real brothers, sons, and fathers suffered and died in this manner. I'm glad our pixeltruppen do not undergo this. Despite all my tongue in cheek hyperbole, I would not like to participate in recreations of human horror in my gaming experience. Count me out from any support of flaming "candlewicks". FWIW. Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black_prince Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 When you put it that way, flares would be preferable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 War is a grim and ugly business. Men die and as often as not do so in particularly horrible ways. Wargames tend to filter that aspect out so that we can concentrate on what interests us: strategy, tactics, weapons' characteristics, etc. But a game like CM ventures into the more personal level of warfare where it is hard to exclude the more gruesome aspects. BFC does a pretty good job of toning those down, but there is no way they can be totally eliminated. So when a guy calls out that he's been hit, or just grunts and goes down, in real life he may have had the side of his head blown off or his guts hanging out. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 War is a grim and ugly business. Men die and as often as not do so in particularly horrible ways. Wargames tend to filter that aspect out so that we can concentrate on what interests us: strategy, tactics, weapons' characteristics, etc. But a game like CM ventures into the more personal level of warfare where it is hard to exclude the more gruesome aspects. BFC does a pretty good job of toning those down, but there is no way they can be totally eliminated. So when a guy calls out that he's been hit, or just grunts and goes down, in real life he may have had the side of his head blown off or his guts hanging out. Michael I had a scene recently where a scout team was next to a guy who fired off a PzShk and missed. The Sherman landed a 75 mm round right on them before I could get anyone out of there. When I looked at the scene I was looking for the PzShk guy (mostly because I was pissed he'd loosed off a round while walking at 200 meters and missed...I should have had an arc command very short on him till he got to the position I wanted him in, but how do I explain that error to my now deceased scouts who until then were successfully waiting in ambush). Couldn't find him and started to wonder- did they actually simulate him getting completely annihilated? I finally found him under one of the scouts, but for a bit there I had this particularly gruesome scene rolling around my head. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Indeed, if I were to post some photos of combat casualties from the era from, say, the US Army Medical Corps study of combat wounds and wound ballistics, I'd probably get banned, so horrible are the actual wounds to look at. War is not a game, nor pretty, nor does what happens to humans in wartime look at all "fun" or "cool." One reason I keep such reference materials is to - very infrequently - remind me of why my interest in war is academic and in no way an endorsement of it in real life. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hm_stanley Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Read for yourself, illustrations at the bottom of the report. Quite interesting. http://history.amedd.army.mil/booksdocs/wwii/woundblstcs/default.htm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonRocko Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 You guys got too be kidding me! You recreate death and destruction on a daily basis and you are worried about this. You're simulating killing and it concerns you whether he burns to death or gets blown to bits? :confused: Bring on the flames, I want too roast chestnuts on my enemies smoldering corpse!:eek: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 I've brought up the topic in the past of red blood 'spray particles' when someone is hit, or swapping out clean for bloodied uniforms on wounded/dead but they'd have none of it. Partly due to additional processor load needed to create the extra effects, but primarily on principle. I remember I had created a CMSF 3rd party scenario Red force made entirely of 'spies' to represent unarmed rioters attaching a UN compound, interspersed with a few 'fighter' combat teams in the crowd. The next game patch to come out altered the characteristics of the 'spies' to make my 'rioting crowd' scenario impossible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Oh, not to get on too high of a hobby horse, my point is that past a certain level of verisimilitude no game will be an enjoyment to me. There is a line which I find distasteful to cross. Of course flamethrowers should be included; I do not want to see flaming death animations in this, or any other form of entertainment. That is my choice. Nor do I want to see limbs and other human desiderata scattered across my computer monitor. I apologize for veering this away from the illumination theme. Flamethrowers: yes. Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LemuelG Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Could just be a 'clean' and 'bloody' option? I'm not exactly pining for flying-limbs and showers of blood, but I wouldn't mind seeing guys being thrown through the air by nearby blasts, and if guys who had been killed by flamethrower weren't at least slightly charred it might be a bit disconcerting; what I mean to say, I suppose, is that excessive sterility detracts from the immersiveness of the game. I might argue that any intentional toning-down of the gruesomeness of combat is done in the name of 'entertainment' and only succeeds in trivializing the events depicted in the game (and I might not, don't bother calling me on it ). Blood - yes. Illumination - yes. Flamethrowers - yes. Most realistic Sim possible - yes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarink Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 I would think flares (parachute or no) would be fairly straightforward to code and not any more of a strain on CPUs than the light from fires (tanks, houses, etc.), which are already in the game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Isn't there a "pool of blood" casualty unit base mod out there somehwere? Put me in the "dirt, yes: gore, no" camp. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cymru Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 I feel that all weapon types should be included, and that their overall effect should be included (CMBO had flamethrowers generating a 'shock' effect as I remember). The graphic visual details are not needed to provide the needed result. However, if CM could code a marker for each type of wound, then those who wanted to could Mod the appropriate overlays and each of us could decide if we wanted to use them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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