McAuliffe Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Being a Belgian, I had to ask. What's the best way to get out of trouble...? I have been experimenting with a reverse assault order and keep cover arc towards enemy, but since often units are too small, you cannot give always such order. What are you doing when you want the heck out of the place , but want to withdraw in an orderly fashion? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Other Means Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Being British, I can answer this: smoke, and have someone else cover while you "quick" away. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrailApe Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Yup as Other Means has just stated - you need a fire base to cover them. It's a bit like advancing - one part being in overwatch, other being manouvering. It's very hard to do properly, tends to end in chaos. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpie_Oz Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Being Australian, you don't. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Wait till they start launching cows at you then yell "run away!!" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broadsword56 Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 I'm certainly no expert, but I have a few suggestions: 1. If you're probing into the unknown and don't know enemy location/size/strength and ambush is a possibility, try to make first contact with the smallest sized element you can. So don't use a full squad. Split it into teams and move the scout team out ahead, covered by the other teams. 2. If you run into a "far" ambush -- for example, an MG opens up on you from the far end of a field, beyond grenade range -- the best way out is the way you came in. Move FAST out of the kill zone back out of LOS and into cover. Only then should you think about returning fire/maneuvering, etc. Every second more that you stay in a kill zone will only lose more men as they become pinned, panic, suppressed, and eventually assaulted. 3. If you run into a "near" ambush -- something right in front of you and around grenade range away -- The best response is an immediate charging ATTACK right into it with all guns blazing. This sounds counterintuitive, but doing this gets you through and past the kill zone ASAP and presents the enemy with an immediate problem -- his fire arcs won't work because you're right inside his position, and he can't bring all his weapons to bear when you're on the same line as he is. 4. In a firefight where it's not an ambush, and things have simply turned against you and you want to get out of trouble: Try a tactical "peel," again with the squad split into separate teams. a. Have all the teams pop smoke (if possible). b. Have all the teams pour out as much return fire as possible. c. "Peel" off the teams, starting with the team farthest from the direction you want to go, using the QUICK command. For example, in a left-to-right peel, the leftmost team disengages, falls back behind the line, and runs to the right. Then the next-leftmost team peels, then finally the third team peels. Ideally, the peeling teams are covered by the fire of the teams still on the line. You can peel L-R, R-L, or retreat back (do it at a slight angle once you're out of LOS and don't retreat straight back, otherwise the enemy can target indirect fire or mortars on your path of retreat. Which brings me to my last point... 5. Always have a path of retreat -- of course, you should be thinking of this BEFORE you get a unit into trouble. Ask yourself, "What if they were hit right now?" and try to anticipate covered fallback positions and rally points they could go to. My question is, what do you do in #2 if it's too late and a team is already pinned? How do you rescue them without sacrificing the rest of the squad? Ideas? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrailApe Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 How do you rescue them without sacrificing the rest of the squad? Ideas? You go to your nearest Artillery Representative (easy to spot - over 6ft, witty, urbane, handsome, strong jaw etc etc ) and ask the nice man if he can make your problem go away. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpie_Oz Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 You go to your nearest Artillery Representative (easy to spot - over 6ft, witty, urbane, handsome, strong jaw etc etc ) and ask the nice man if he can make your problem go away. And with any luck he will shoot himself. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrailApe Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Magpie Oz, Sir you seem somewhat pugnacious at the moment. Are you trying to tell me that you don't believe that Artillery is the most important/best/sexiest thing on the battlefield? And you know full well that the FOO will not shoot himselve, as they idiot savants who are not allowed to carry weapons (that's why they have the OP ack) as it detracts from the near mystical experience that is Fire Planning. They talk about the beauty of the Lindifarne Gospels - however these publications carry more meaning Command Post Shooting Form B 6587 GPO’s Fire Plan Proforma B 6593 Gun Target Report B 2649 Predicted Fuze Length & Corrector 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackcat Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 You go to your nearest Artillery Representative (easy to spot - over 6ft, witty, urbane, handsome, strong jaw etc etc ) and ask the nice man if he can make your problem go away. And he will say, "Of course I can, son. Just give me 15 minutes or so", and you will say, "But my troops in trouble will all be dead by then" and he will reply, "Then your problem will be over and so you don't really need my help. Stop wasting my time" Of course if you are dealing with the occasional helpful artillery rep he will promise immediate help and then 10 minutes later drop his rounds on your own troops - again ending the problem but not in the way you would have liked. They don't call them "The Fall-shorts for nothing". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MengJiao Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Being British, I can answer this: smoke, and have someone else cover while you "quick" away. As a real time player, if I get to a situation before it gets critical, I just have the larger surviving squads or teams take quick to safety. Once (during a rare moment as a German), I had infantry guns target the hole in the hedge that the pursuers might try to take. I also (again in a breif Teutonic mood) tried to have Nebelwerfers blast the pursuers on "immediate", but something went wrong with that and either the nebels or the werfers went elsewhere or never fired or both. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrailApe Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Fall-Shorts dismissive sneering noise Its DROP-shorts. I never said it was a perfect option. (15 minutes is a long time for a quick smoke shoot with an HE alternative - what artillery branch have you had contact with?) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cymru Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Being British, I can answer this: smoke, and have someone else cover while you "quick" away. "Smithers: what we need is a futile but gallant gesture" "Sir!!!" "Stay here and stop the Jerries from coming down this road" "Sir!!!!" "Good bye and good luck Smithers" "Shall we say 'au revoir' sir?" "No, goodbye Smitjhers" With apologies to Beyond the Fringe 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpie_Oz Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Are you trying to tell me that you don't believe that Artillery is the most important/best/sexiest thing on the battlefield? Since when were the the Drop Shorts on the battlefield ? More like 10km from it. There is only one true gospel. Manual of Land Warfare: Ratel anything else is just fluff 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackcat Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 "15 minutes is a long time for a quick smoke shoot with an HE alternative " Fair go, 15 minutes was completely unrealistic - to get rounds on target call it 30 - what with having get their comms bloke to understand what you want and where (they are all deaf, you know), do the sums (no computers in those days and the chap at the plotting table is visually-impaired as well as deaf), get the trail apes to put their brew down (hardest job of all) finaly the guns will go bang and the gunners will all have to lie down for a few minutes to get over their orgasm. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseltaylor Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Its DROP-shorts............ Gay. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVulture Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 One other important thing about retreating from a position that is going to be overrun. There are two options: leave 'too early' or don't leave at all. By the time you get to the point that you think "now looks like a good time to get out of here" you have probably left it too late, and suppression, pinning and casualties will get a lot more of your men killed than you might have expected. When you think "I can probably last one more turn before I have to leave", then you are likely at the very last chance to get your guys out of there alive. Remember, in a defensive plan that involves fighting in one position and then withdrawing to another, the aim probably isn't to hold the first position as long as possible. The aim is typically to ambush the lead elements, cause some casualties and get out of there alive. If this also messes up the attack plan timing, forces the diverison of reserve units to the wrong area of the battlefield, or wastes some HE rounds on the positions where you were, that is a bonus. But remember the situation changes very quickly. When you have fire superiority, all your enemies are pinned and doing very little return fire. Add in one more enemy squad that is unsuppressed, and suddenly one of your units is suppressed, and firing less. Which lessens the suppression on other enemy units, which leads to them putting out more fire, which leads to more suppression on you and less outgoing fire, which leads to less suppression of the enemy... etc. It is a positive feedback cycle that can flip the situation very quickly, and you go from pinning down all the enemy with impunity to guys too pinned down to withdraw in a surprisingly short time. By all means, stay as long as it is safe to do so, but once you've sprung your ambush, it is better to leave a little too early than a little too late. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chek Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Being Australian, you don't. In the ANZAC spirit I concur,you stand there and die like a man. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Radley Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Magpie Oz, Sir you seem somewhat pugnacious at the moment. He's been hanging about with a bunch of people who, at their best, are horrible influences. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Retrograde manuevers are one of the hardest military operations to carry out. My suggestion is move back using smoke and bounding overwatch. Take advantage of cover just like you did when you advanced (hopefully.) For tanks make sure to use REVERSE instead of turning your rear armor to the enemy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Magpie Oz, Sir you seem somewhat pugnacious at the moment. No, no, he's always like that. Australian, you know. No manners at all. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 who left the door open to the peng thread? sheesh will somebody round em up and put them back in their cage? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Radley Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 who left the door open to the Peng thread? sheesh will somebody round em up and put them back in their cage? Fixed that for ya. Always willing to help out a refugee from a Burt Bacharach song. {Serious} I agree with Mr. Vulture's post pretty much. Many times if you think that now is the time to leave, you're probably too late. And that when performing a delaying action, get your opponents attention, then beat feet.{/Serious} 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Fixed that for ya. Always willing to help out a refugee from a Burt Bacharach song. I am soooo happy I don't understand the Bacharach comment. Vindication of my years spent listening to the Dead. whew. The non capitilzation was deliberate. Only the denizens of the peng thread have this odd perception that their little world has earned a place as a proper noun. One would after all not capitalize playpen, crib or padded cell. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zukkov Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 retreat hell! we're just attacking in a different direction! oh wait, that's the marines. you army pukes go ahead and retreat... :-p 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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